Blood Vengeance 101

[DonCorazon]

Note: I am editing the original post questions to compile all the useful information on Blood Vengeance in a single post. For attribution, see the good folk who provided answers in the thread that follows. Any additional Q&A or revised/confirmed answers will be included in this 1st post. Thanks.

How does the Blood Vengeance [+ #] ability work?

When an attacker scores a hit on a unit with Blood Vengeance (BV), any damage that would have been inflicted on the BV unit is reflected upon the attacker if the attacker fails a Magic Resistance roll. If the attacker fails this roll, the defender with Blood Vengeance takes no damage.

What does the # indicate?

The number that follows the Blood Vengeance trait indicates the penetration bonus used to determine whether the attacker's Magic Resistance roll is successful or not.

How are certain damage effects treated when applied to BV units, such as poison, burning, or fatigue?

BV will not protect against many secondary effects, like burn or poison, and may not protect from fatigue damage. [to be confirmed]

How does this ability work when lets say you have an Angel of Fury (Blood Vengeance +2) with some form of elemental resistance like CR 100 and the Angel is struck by a Cold Bolt, which does no damage to the Angel because of the cold resistance? Is there any chance the Blood Vengeance kicks in or does it only work when the Angel actually suffers damage?

Anecdotal evidence suggests that the blood vengeance effect is triggered after a hit occurs, but before calculating the damage suffered by the BV unit. So if the attacker hits and then fails its MR, the BV effect is triggered, and whatever damage would have been applied to the BV unit (before taking into account resistances) is applied to the attacker instead. As a result, things like elemental resistance should not reduce the damage an attacker can take from BV. On the otherhand, effects that reduce the BV's unit chances of getting hit, such as etherealness, lucky or awe, will reduce the likelihood that the BV effect is triggered.

Similarly, what about the spell Mistform, which reduces most non-magical attacks to 1 point of damage. Would a creature with Blood Vengeance only reflect back 1 HP or the actual damage that would have occurred without the Mistform spell? Would a powerful blow that would normally dispel Mistform actually fail to dispel it since Blood Vengeance reflects it back on the attacker?

Based on the same theory above, Mistform should not reduce damage taken by someone who hits a BV unit.

Does it protect from paralyze? What about soul slay? Or enslavement?

Paralyze, Soul Slay, Enslave appear not to trigger BV.


Does it protect from disintegrate?

Yes


How is trample damage affected by BV?

BV does not affect trample damage.

Does it protect from ritual spells that cause damage, such as Seeking Arrow, Fires from Afar, etc.?

Yes - plz confirm.

Is Blood Vengeance penetration increased with regular penetration items like Rune Smashers?

No.

Are there any magic items that increase Blood Vengeance (as for example with Fear and a Horror Helmet)?

The Flesh Ward, a Const 8 Armor that requires B5 to forge, gives Blood Vengeance +1 to units that have no BV to begin with and a +2 bonus to units with inherent BV.

If a unit with BV casts the Blood spell Blood Vengeance, is the +# value affected by the caster's Blood skill?

No - the blood vengeance spell does not stack with existing BV, instead the caster simply casts a different spell.

[ano]

and there are no magic items that increase it (as for example with Fear and a Horror Helmet).

There's a unique blood armor giving BV and I believe it should increase BV if a unit already has it.

[Gregstrom]

It does - I've used one on an Angel of Vengeance before now.

AFAIK the BV only transfers damage the target would actually suffer.

[archaeolept]

flesh ward is not unique, just rarely used

also, you can empower the angel in blood and cast the spell ;p

I don't think a cold bolt would reflect any damage if the AoF were immune, but I can't swear to that.

spells that cause damage reflect.

I have the feeling that weapons which cause afflictions also have those reflected.

[atul]

Are you sure Blood Vengeance just transmits damage taken? I just had a raiding Dakini (inbuilt BV+0), and it appeared to me that while he was Mistformed, several attacking units died by BV effect - way more than Dakini took damage. And if BV is standard MR resists (against 10), surely he should have taken more damage to dish it out...

How does BV work, actually?

[Adept]

If the damage is successfully reflected, the fivefold angel (or similar) doesn't take any damage itself.

I learned this the hard way in an arena fight, where my hero impaled the harmless angel for upteen points of damage and instakilled himself

[Baalz]

Interesting BV trivia - if you hit somebody with drain life and it reflects back due to BV, you don't heal yourself the damage dealt - you just get hit.

How it always seemed to work to me is that BV was checked after a hit occurs, but before damage is dealt, then if BV is triggered the damage roll occurs against the attacker instead. So, for instance awe, etherealness, luck & high defense will keep the attackers from taking any damage, but mistform, regen & high protection will have the attackers dying like flies while your SC shrugs it off. I haven't tested it out, but if that theory is correct then FR resistant angels will reflect fire damage back and it's the attacker who's resistance matters.

[atul]

Well Baalz's explanation would surely fit to what I've seen. Next project: raising every raider's protection, lowering their defence.

Let there be blood.

But as a side note, are 100% resistant units targeted by spells? Or do they just get hit by misfire?

[Gregstrom]

I've a question that isn't in the top post:

If you cast the spell Blood Vengeance, is the +# value affected by the caster's Blood skill?

[konming]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

I've a question that isn't in the top post:

If you cast the spell Blood Vengeance, is the +# value affected by the caster's Blood skill?

I wonder too. Also I know that blood vengeance will not protect against many secondary effects, like burn or poison, and I believe that it does not protect from fatigue damage.

Does it protect from paralyze? What about soul slay? Or enslavement?