Ooh, ooh, new info on patch page!

[TwoBits]

I just don't see how R'lyeh can function in even the medium term with a much faster population crash. Unlike Ermor, they have to spend gold on their commanders (280 each for non-sacred Starspawn mages). Add to that, apparently their not-so-free-spawn cost upkeep. Played the normal way (awake Dom 10 god, building temples as fast as they can, etc.), they will quickly cripple themselves economically.

Heck, I'm in the mid-game as R'lyeh in an MP game right now, and as it is I haven't bought a new Starspawn or Illithid in at least a dozen turns, as already more than two thirds of my income is devoured by upkeep! If my population really started to die off, I'd be FUBAR.

Yeah, in my current game, I'm a dangerous faction. But as others have mentioned, this is where diplomacy comes into play - there's already a coalition built just to deal with me.

The point is, if R'lyeh's population dies a whole lot faster, it will require a completely different style of play. They can't just ignore it, and burn gems and the occasional lucky gold strike like Ermor. They'd have to play a lot like Mictlan (except with a lot less control, with no blood sacrifice available), restricting their crappy dominion to their capital and surrounding environment.

Outside of their lethal dominion, they'd have to play like MA R'lyeh, except they'd have to do it in whatever crummy enemy dominion they happened to be in. "Free Spawn" would become a totally minor part of their game plan - just something they scrape up from the 'dead-zone' that is their capital.

LA R'lyeh will have to 'nerf' it's own Dreamlands fun, just in order to fund it's own existence. So that would mean a lot less random void-beings, many fewer free cultist commanders, and a whole lot less INSANITY - all the things that make LA R'lyeh such a fun race to have in the game. Basically, it would wind up like a gimped MA R'lyeh.

Oh well, just my two bits. Maybe I'm only griping because I'm worrying that the next patch will totally kill me in my current game I just wish there was another way of cutting LA R'lyeh down to size (that didn't involve cutting it's head clean off!).

[archaeolept]

less talk, more releasing of patches

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

LA R'lyeh will have to 'nerf' it's own Dreamlands fun, just in order to fund it's own existence. So that would mean a lot less random void-beings, many fewer free cultist commanders, and a whole lot less INSANITY - all the things that make LA R'lyeh such a fun race to have in the game. Basically, it would wind up like a gimped MA R'lyeh.

Well and that just won't do - and it's the crux of the war between balance and theme.

Honestly I think most people would agree that some sort of change would benefit the game as a whole, however it would be hard to get someone who has actually played R'lyeh, to not agree that insuring all freespawns are free of upkeep, must accompany a reduction in cash-flow.

Personally I think that doubling the popkill rate will be plenty of a balancing factor. At that point, it already becomes useless to try to use Growth to mitigate poploss and to "farm" your peasantry.

Any change that forces R'lyeh to limit Dom spread in order to maintain viability, will kill their ability to survive (the Temporal has a high Void resistance?). So ultimately, the mechanics need to work out so that R'lyeh can continue to function, while pushing their Dom outward. This means minimizing upkeep costs - or else there is no reason that they will not stagnate and wither away sooner than later.

Also, and probably too difficult to implement - it would likely help if normal "mortal" troop types simply stopped spawning altogether in any "barren" territories. Where are all of these Tritons coming from? No one lives there!

[Gregstrom]

I'd have thought the easy way to mitigate upkeep costs would be to keep sending your freespawn out to die in battle.

[konming]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

I'd have thought the easy way to mitigate upkeep costs would be to keep sending your freespawn out to die in battle.

Except when you completely rule the sea, there are no one to fight for those aqua-only mad tritons.

[Sombre]

To an extent, the popkilling is going to help kill off the awful gold draining freespawn, by starving them all to death. This is especially true of the aquatic ones.

[vfb]

Too bad there are no hidden gold mines underwater to tax at 200%...

[rdonj]

Sombre has a good point.

Personally I think it would be more fun if R'lyeh's dominion would occasionally cause horrible creatures from the void to break loose and wreak havoc on their provinces, or assassinate commanders. Maybe generate horror attacks/marks. Their maximum number of candles could increase the chance of a random event happening, or just the chance of a random event being bad, say by 2% per candle. Or it could be a chance for an event completely seperate from luck events, to increase the chances of them happening.

I'm aware none of these will probably ever be implemented, they just seem like they could be a fun way to make life harder for R'lyeh

[Kristoffer O]

> Also, and probably too difficult to implement - it would likely help if normal "mortal" troop types simply stopped spawning altogether in any "barren" territories. Where are all of these Tritons coming from? No one lives there!

But people ARE living there, they just don't do anything except dream and sleep and stuff.

Reductions or removal of upkeep on dreamers is not an unthematic solution to the problem. Then they still starve and the economy as a whole will suffer some, but the dreamers do not demand anything for their services. They just dream after all.

[Edratman]

KO,

Unusual time for you to be on the boards. No school today? Or do you transform into some sort of (more) hideous creature on Halloween?