MP: Chlorolera is made of contagious and deadly!

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by DonCorazon

I don't play in 50 games and just roll the dice and then go AI or quit in games where my gambles don't work out. I play till the end in every game. Even when it seems like I am going to lose, as in this game, I don't just quit or suggest its not worth the time to take my turns....

This is where it gets fun.

I like suggesting things. There is -usually- a thinly or heavily veiled reason for me to say something, but often my point in expressing myself has little to do with being understood (seems a lost cause), rather than creating an effect (cause-effect, much more reliable than actual understanding).

Now, you can imply things about my character as a player, and that's great, but it just proves that you don't know. You see, I play to the end in every game as well. I have never passed a failing position to a sub as "still competitive", I have never gone AI prematurely, and I've never stopped submitting turns simply because a position begins to look hopeless. I'm actually only starting to become comfortable, in this game, taking the big risks when the signs are unfavorable, and I want to roll the dice. You make it sound as if you equate gambling, with a tendency to quit, or to abandon an unfavorable position. I find it ironic that when I turtled up with Gath in Kingmaker because I had no attractive options, you commented you didn't know how people could play the game without finding a fight, then when I rush you here, you complain to me how you keep getting rushed, and you just want to play out the game. And for clarification, I have gone AI exactly twice in MP games here, the first was Gath in Kingmaker, and I was down to my last 2 castles, with no units after my last blaze of glory. The other was World in Crisis, where I likewise had made a last desperate series of attacks against the *3* people attacking me, and only went AI when I did, because a player in a much stronger position in the game got frustrated about a stale, and wanted out - we couldn't find another sub so I offered to swap out, for the good of the game.

At any rate, I know full well about your confidence as far as our initial clash was concerned. The thing was, you were cut off from recruitment options, with no/little income (sieged capital), while I was prepared to send reinforcements every turn, with a very strong income, and national troops streaming in at a rate that I felt very much outweighed the potential power gains from your continued research. In any case, I'm not sure how you could argue with my assertion that I would be far happier with the situation had it played out as a 1v1 then on my terms, rather than a 1v2 against my vassal neighbor and his newfound double-dealing ally.

You see, what you called an "Alliance" (Star Elephant Alliance ring a bell? Your term, not mine), I considered vassalage. That's what happens when a nation is about to crumble under another, and out of fear of the end, begs for mercy, they become a vassal. Big mistake on my part, I suppose, to think that you might be grateful that I responded favorably to your plea for survival, and would continue to plan and work with me to make both our nations stronger.

[DonCorazon]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

You see, what you called an "Alliance", I considered vassalage.

And therein lies the problem with our communication. I am not sure how alliance equates to vassalage I certainly never have in this or any other game said I'd be someone's vassal. My goal is to protect the good people of Arcos and see that my pretender ascends or dies trying. In my admittedly spotty mind, alliance just meant we would both attack the same foe. I complied and attacked but the "alliance" ended in my mind when we signed a NAP with Shin . After that all we had was a NAP with each other which had to end sometime. I have complied with it, right?

Going back to the moment where you had me besieged and I asked for a NAP - you didn't know how close my reinforcements were, nor that I had nice indie mages in addition to my capital mages, nor what my research level was, so your claims that I was "begging for mercy" are based on incomplete information. I asked for a NAP because, for the reasons described above, I thought I had a decent chance of winning back my besieged capital, but that even winning it would be a big setback. I didn't want to risk a single mage, and who knows what can happen on a battlefield with a bunch of elephants. I told you as much and you agreed to a NAP. Its not like I used the Jedi mind trick on you. How that turned into me being your vassal, I have no idea. I did not feel "grateful for your mercy" as you describe it but rather was annoyed that you thought it was a good idea to elephant rush another elephant nation when there were bountiful indie provinces all around. Part of the reason you were able to siege the capital was it seemed like such a bad idea, I thought you had attacked the adjacent province mistakenly and so I did not move in reinforcements. My stupidity there. And I am not saying your plan would not have worked - your elephants might have stormed through my sparse defenses and wiped me out - it might have been brilliant. I didn't want to take a chance that it was and so asked for a NAP.

And if I misinterpreted you on quitting, then my apologies but a few posts up you said "sort of makes me not want to bother making up a turn at this point.." and "I'd rather just have it over, and be able to start a similar scenario on the same map perhaps." That sounded to me like you wanted to give up.

Sorry if this all left a bitter taste - you alluded to being stabbed in the kidneys, etc. and I certainly don't want to make anyone feel like that. For me its just a game and fun. Having someone end a NAP or attack unexpectedly can be rough, but its part of the game. It knocked me out of the KM race when Eriu surprise attacked me but I played on in good humor with Cleveland, the evil Sidhe mastermind.

Ok, someone please post something funny to pull this one out of the mud...

[Pelthin]

Well I must say this is a very fun game. I love the banter on the forums and the general amount of mayhem in game.

Frankly, I have been getting my butt kicked as Man, but I love this nation. It has a little of everything, and I just have to balance my arrows with some power.

Hopefully the war rages on and we can see who will reign supreme.

Okay I stole that last line from Iron Chef.

[AdmiralZhao]

Contrary to my earlier joking, I would agree with Pelthin. I'm still looking at two Ashdod armies of 400+ units, they still have complete control of their capital, and they are still making an SC per turn. It would be nice if we could put down one threat (Ashdod) before starting the ritual drawing and quartering of the next threat (Shinuyama).

As to the comment about why people haven't ganged up on rising leaders, I would say that they have, since that is what I, Man, and others did to Ashdod. And as you have seen, it is thankless work, and likely to lead to your death either from the original threat or from the nations you are trying to save. It now looks like the spiders that we so doted on, that we sent so many lovingly prepared care packages, are now turning their many, many eyes away from us. I think that truly hurts worst of all.

Honestly, all that a dis-illusioned Shinuyama wants to do at this point is retire in peace back to the farm, having done its part to save the greater community of nations. We'll even go further than our previous guarantee, and will leave Ashdod in possession of its Mictlan holdings and all its other territory in the west. That will quickly level off the province graphs you are so worried about, even if I am successful against Ashdod.

[cleveland]

Originally Posted by AdmiralZhao

It now looks like the spiders that we so doted on, that we sent so many lovingly prepared care packages, are now turning their many, many eyes away from us. I think that truly hurts worst of all.

No need to take it personally. We Machakans plan to declare war on everyone, eventually.

p.s. When the fate of the universe is decided, you MUST give us your giant recipe! Was that coriander? Our black hunters swore they tasted coriander.

[DonCorazon]

Provinces mean little other than the gems (and to a lesser extent income) they produce - that's what makes the philosophers wet themselves when they gaze east.

Speaking of which, the White Tower has recently endorsed Vine Shields as the shield of choice for our thugs and seeks some nature gems. We can trade a mix of W/F/E/D gems in exchange. We are also offering Construction 6 abilities to all who seek our masterful works. We only charge MSRP + 2 gems.

[cleveland]

Recommend a delay...looks like TC's gonna stale 2X...replacement?

[cthulhu]

There's no point to a replacement for me. I can turn in turns if you want, but at this point there is little difference between what TC does I turn in a turn and what TC does when I stale. I have a grand total of 3 mages, 1 prophet, maybe 40 light infantry, very little research, and zero gem income. I'm only alive until Shin decides to end me.

[Juffos]

48 hour postpone given.

[DonCorazon]

I agree its totally ironic

A pictorial history of the Arcos-Bandar relationship follows to illustrate the complex dynamics between these two proud nations:

Here is the scene where we convinced the Bandar general to spare Arcos:




Our alliance is sealed:




And here is the Bandar diplomat right after he was informed that Arcos has pulled out of the Star Elephant Alliance: