Wishlist: Shadow Magic

[HoneyBadger]

My attempt to design a new magic path for Dom3--to go along with my "Why magic paths are like mod Nations" thread.

Note: This is just a hastily made example of how a new path *might* work. Obviously, a better effort could be made with more work and thought put into it, and certainly a better balance. Hopefully, it will serve to illustrate the potential of new paths to benefit the overall strategy and fun of the game.

First, the bless. At 4 Shadow Magic picks, sacred units get "Strength in Darkness +1". This improves by 1 point at 6, 8, and 10. At 8 Shadow Magic picks, sacred units get Darkvision 50. If they already had Darkvision 50, they would now have Darkvision 100. I contend that this isn't overly powerful, and it serves to help nerf the "Utterdark" spell.

Mages, at Shadow Magic 5, get Stealth 0. This increases by 1 point at 6+.

Forged items might include:
Blade of the Sentinel, Const 2 1 handed magical shortsword that gives Darkvision 50% and Patrol Bonus +5.
Shadow Shield, Const 4 shield which strikes attackers with a Fear 5 attack.
Beggar's Rags, Const 4 armour which gives Stealth 0,
Rose Glass Spectacles Const 4 helm which gives Glamour,
Shadow Banner, Const 6 2-hand weapon which gives friendly units in a 5 area range, Strength in Darkness +2, and Darkvision 50%.
Slayer's Helmet, Const 6 helm which gives Stealth 5,
Ring of Night, a misc artifact which gives Stealth 25, Darkvision 100%, and Strength in Darkness +5, but also strongly horror-marks the user.
Banner of the Coming Dawn (requires Shadow and Fire magic to forge), a misc 2-hand weapon that dispels Darkness on the battlefield.

Shadow gems would *not* be alchemizeable into gold, but could be converted from Astral gems.

Possible Site:
Hall of Broken Mirrors. Uncommon, Shadow 1, Produces 1 shadow gem.
Dark Tower, Rare/Unique, Shadow 3. Produces 2 shadow gems, and allows shadow mages to enter to summon Shadow Dancers.

Generic spells:
Alt=
Level 0 Alt--Shadow Hand-touch type spell that reduces target's Att and Def by 2 each, MR resists.
Level 1 Alt--Knife in the Dark--increases mage's Att and Str by 6 each for 1 attack
Level 2 Alt--Obfuscate--gives the mage Glamour.
Level 6 Alt--Sons of Hel--gives a small group of units Glamour

Evo=
Level 1 Veil--touch attack, MR resists, only affects units *without* darkvision or blindness, causes the effects of blindness for the target, but only for the duration of that combat.
Level 3 Flicker Bolt--distance lifedrain attack, MR resists easily, costs 1 shadow gem
Level 5 Flicker Wave--area lifedrain attack, MR resists easily, costs 1 shadow gem
Level 7 Flicker Storm--distance lifedrain area attack, MR resists easily, costs 1 shadow gem
Level 9 Darkness Falls--Veil type attack, but affects all units, friendly and enemy, and MR easily negates. Costs 3 Shadow Gems.

Conj=
Level 4 Conj--Summon Tenebrum, combat only, summons a size 6 etherial tentacle that starts with 1 Hp, and does Lifedrain Tentacle damage, gains Power in Darkness +2 and Darkvision 100%, costs 1 Shadow gem
Level 5 Conj--Shadow Dancers: summons a group of 5 stealthy/etherial human-sized units that have Darkvision 100 and get stronger in darkness.
Level 7 Conj--Master of Shadows: summons "Shadow Lord", an appropriately powerful SC.
Level 9 Tenebrous Bore, combat only, summons 8+ Tenebrums. Costs 2 shadow gems.

Const=
Level 3 Zuni Doll--sends a size 1 4 hp assassin (Zuni fetish doll) to a distance province. Costs 1 shadow gem. Zuni fetish doll is armed with a spear and a bite, and regenerates damage/heals self.

Thaum=
Level 2 Pinprick--A ritual distance attack spell that only does 1 point of damage but horror-marks the target. Costs 1 shadow gem.

Level 3 Shadow Walk--teleport self only spell. Costs 5 shadow gems.

Level 4 Blind Eye--shadow site detection spell.

Enc=
Level 1--Shadow Mask--combat only, gives the mage 100% darkvision.
Level 8--Shadow Company--combat only, gives all friendly units 50% darkvision, cost 2 Shadow Gems.

Pretenders might include: Daughter of Night--titan sized female Pretender with 2 shadow magic, produces 1 shadow gem per turn.
Mother Night--female rainbow mage with 1 shadow magic.
Grandfather of Assassins--male lich immortal assassin with Stealth 30, shadow and death magic, glamour, armed with 2 serpent kryss's. Summons shades in battle. Unlike other Liches, costs 60 for new paths.

[Micah]

I don't see how this is a significant departure from death magic, thematically. In addition, many of the suggestions break one of the game's universal balance rules by giving out stealth.

A few darkvision spells (Death for the undead angle or maybe earth for the cave-dweller theme) or dispel darkness effects (fire/astral) would be cool to have added in, but certainly don't justify a whole path.

One idea that came up on IRC was wild magic, which WOULD be a fun mechanic in moderation. I think a lot of suggested paths overlap with what's already available though, like this one seems to.

[HoneyBadger]

Like I said, it was quickly done, and a lot more could be done with it to make it distinctive. I didn't go through every single spell in the game to make sure that nothing was duplicated, I just guessed. Giving out stealth isn't a hard and fast rule of the game, it just hasn't been done so far, and there is some desire to see it added.

[Gandalf Parker]

IMHO I think it is a rule.
They had to decide whether or not to make stealth, or assassin, available. Personally I think stealth would have been the choice (stealth cloaks, helm of invisibility, etc) if it wasnt for the balance thing.

[MaxWilson]

I think Shadow Magic does a good job of illustrating why path modding is more than just a few lines of code. All of the items and many of the spells you describe can't be constructed from current mod commands and would need to be hard-coded in, or else a metasystem for spell effect creation and item modding would need to be invented.

-Max

[HoneyBadger]

It's just an example, MaxWilson. It's not meant to be a perfect, shining illustration of anything. It's only meant to show that it's possible to design a magic path other than the ones that are already present in the game.

This is something that I took 2 minutes to think up. It's not designed to stand up to rigorous inspection. It's meant to illustrate a very specific few points, and that's it. Is it really necessary that I put in several weeks of work just so that people don't run off on their own tangents?

If you can't read the post in it's entirety, or if you're incapable of taking anything with a grain of salt, then please don't bother replying, because it's frustrating for me, and it wastes both of our time.

[Gregstrom]

Thing is, Honey, it's not difficult to have ideas. For that matter, it's not incredibly difficult to have good and/or interesting ideas.

Implementing them is the tricky bit, and I think Max is trying to point out how much work would be involved in the implementation.

While I would certainly like to see more commands available for spell modding, I think that the degree of work involved in allowing extra paths to be modded in would be prohibitive. And while your spells and items are interesting, they could be fitted into existing paths or cross-paths - most would fit into a mix of Astral, Air and Death without seeming out of place.



Edit: some of this does seem to have been superceded by KO's post. Ah well, never mind.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

Thing is, Honey, it's not difficult to have ideas. For that matter, it's not incredibly difficult to have good and/or interesting ideas.

Implementing them is the tricky bit, and I think Max is trying to point out how much work would be involved in the implementation.

Pretty much. I actually think HoneyBadger's ideas are generally very cool and would make a neat game. It's just that Dom3 is a computer game, not a board game, so adding new ideas requires more than writing them into the appendix. Even in a board game, actually, it takes a certain amount of work to "implement" ideas cleanly in such a way that you can play out a battle without sixteen different rulebooks, four retroactive alterations to outcomes which were computed incorrectly because of overlooked rules, and two arguments over special ability interpretations involving immovable objects and irresistable forces. (I'm looking at YOU, D&D.)

Anyway, KO has posted so there's no real point in my arguing further.

-Max

[Aezeal]

Honey, you know I like you.. but some of your idea's... not so.. IMHO the thread you where referring too should've make clear that not much pplz think it's needed to be able to mod magic paths and even less think it's worth the effort for our valued game programmer... even less again think it would be worth for him working on this instead of the innumerable (IMHO) things he could better be working on.

If you then decide to push the point and come with an example.. fine but IF you do that you should think it over well and give us the best of the best example you can give to convince us (especially if you don't put it in the mod forum I'd say). If the first replies you give are "it was done quickly" and "it's not meant to be perfect" etc etc then you are probably just wasting your and everyone elses time since you won't convice anyone (this thread doesn't add new stuff compared to your first thread except and example that even you think isn't very good).

Now I'm not saying you can't waste pplz time on this forum.. about 50% of the posts here and about 90% of my own are a waste of time.. but I think you should know that is what it is a waste of time.

If you want to give this another shot (no need though) then give us the BEST OF THE BEST IDEA'S and arguments to implement this (and do it in the mod forum )

PS better work on a dom 3 K nation

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

If you want to give this another shot (no need though) then give us the BEST OF THE BEST IDEA'S and arguments to implement this (and do it in the mod forum )

Shadow Magic isn't a bad idea, and the "paths like nations" thread was full of good ideas. While it's a pity that we can't implement everything HoneyBadger and others suggested, there are many things we could and I'd like to try out.

Dom3 Total Conversion with, say, Chinese Five Elements as magic paths (rituals, combat spells) and (urgh) sex magic and animism... Hmm, perhaps Five Elements/Holy combination paths for martial arts masters. It could be cool. A Tartarian Monstrum attacked your researcher province, but the Masters of the Way tore him apart!

Blindness, Quickness, Burning Hands, Farstrike ->

Snake Style Eye Gouge: range 0, fatigue 0, defence evades; 2 AN dam + Blindness (as per spell, so MR negates)
8 Trigrams Battle Stance: personal, fatigue 0; Quickness
Flaming Fist: range 0, fatigue 0, AoE 1; Burning Hands
Leap of Faith: range 5, fatigue 0; Farstrike
Death Touch: range 0, fatigue 0; 10+ AP damage, Seven Year Fever

It could be fun!