Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!

[Trumanator]

You know the "Senate Minority Report" now consists of over 650 international scientists who dipute GW. Many of them are current or former IPCC scientists who have turned against it.

Not that it matters anymore. GW has now reached the status of a religion, and it is essentially impossible to convince people on either side of the aisle to join your own side. The only way they do is when they decide for themselves.

The most dangerous part of the GW activist movement is the growing lawlessness of it. A bunch of activists in Britain vandalized a factory, but were aquitted on the grounds that it would cause future damage to them through GW. Their star witness was NASA's official GW expert. Just recently a bunch of activists shut down London airport, and its quite possible that they will get the same treatment.

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

You know the "Senate Minority Report" now consists of over 650 international scientists who dipute GW. Many of them are current or former IPCC scientists who have turned against it.

Wow, ExxonMobil's doing it again?

- http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_rel...g-tobacco.html

- http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-file...ttertoNick.pdf

(j/k)

Originally Posted by Trumanator

The most dangerous part of the GW activist movement is the growing lawlessness of it.

The most dangerous part of hiding the head under the sand is that we'll continue harming the planet instead

And about vandals... there are idiots everywhere they can damage something, I think (with full respect) you are making an argumentum ad personam

And that's not "a religion". Like is not "a religion" believing in evolution or gravity or whatever. That's just a scientific theory which is gathering datas that -for now- mostly point in the direction that us, burning lots of fossil fuels, are significantly helping something that surely has even other causes, and we need to reduce pollution (which would even have other significant positive effects on environment, so many other wins) and move to greener energy sources.

[vfb]

'I didn't see one cube of ice':

First commercial ship sails through Northwest Passage

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

The average temperature of the world is gradually, and consistently increasing.

No, it isn't.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

Actually, yes it is -

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

Also, sea surface temperature is rising as well -

http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/...obal_temp.html


Again I can only repeat - at a certain point, the cause of this trend is somewhat irrelevant, what matters is how we respond to the changes, and safeguard the viability of our massive and growing population.

[MaxWilson]

1.) Your chart stops ten years ago. Temperature hasn't been rising for several years now.

2.) It's still not consistent. Quoting from your own link, "Figure 1 shows a rise of about 0.6 K since 1910 and no trend between 1940-75." Sometimes it rises, sometimes it falls. In the 20th century it rose more often than it fell, and there was a net temperature gain. In some other centuries, there wasn't.

Global mean temperature is not "gradually, and consistently increasing." (Even if you can come up with a sensible definition of a global "mean".)

-Max

[MaxWilson]

Ah, skip it. I'm talking like a jerk. Sorry, Jim. I'd delete that post but it's past the 30 minute limit.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

Hey, it's a heated issue, Max! *rimshot*


But seriously, I understand, I was getting a little riled myself, and as much as it's a good thing to maintain control of one's self in a disagreement, it's equally a good thing to not get upset if your opponent gets a bit terse or combative.


Anyway, all evidence points towards a warming trend that has been lasting for thousands of years now. That coupled with the fact that most life on Earth exists between 35° and 105° Fahrenheit, and it becomes rather important, especially when you talk about an anomolous 1/2 degree jump in 30 years. Globally. That is an enormous amount of material to warm or cool in a measurable manner.

The air is warming, we can see there is consistently (there's that word again!) less snowpack than in decades past, and glaciers are very rapidly receding.

The sea is warming, we can see that arctic/antarctic ice is melting away from passages never before clear in history, also coral reefs that live in very delicate ecosystems, and took thousands of years to grow, are dying off because the water temperatures are rising.


The sad part of all of this, is that everytime any kind of liberal and/or environmental issue surfaces, there is a subculture that is wildly ignorant to any actual facts, who are more than eager to champion that cause, and make total asses out of everyone else who is trying to work off of facts. Meanwhile, this causes a knee-jerk response in more conservative types, who see this obviously reactionary activity, and try to end it. Sometimes the roles are reversed, but for some reason the wildly ignorant conservatives (race-hate-mongers, etc) manage to not scream so loudly as the liberals. But it all makes it hard for us to converge on the facts, and come to agreement as to what those facts actually mean.

[llamabeast]

I think global warming wouldn't be remotely controversial if it wasn't so strongly in our interest not to believe in it.

[llamabeast]

Ha, sorry, that was another of my cheerfully provocative posts! I think I shouldn't be allowed to post on politics or global warming. So although I do agree with my previous post, please ignore it if you don't like it, because the way I wrote it as just a single sentence makes it more provocation than argument.