Legends of Faerun - Closed (Game started)

[Lingchih]

Actually, I'm still having a blast with this game, but I may be the only one.

I'm more than happy the end it though if you declare me the winner

[Jazzepi]

I'm still playing, but if this game goes, I'm dropping out of Beardaxe, and focusing on Zebra, and Aquamarine. Hopefully they'll be more interesting.

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Actually, if we end it, Jazz should probably be the winner... he has the most VPs. But honestly, no one has come close to the victory conditions. Should probably just be called a draw due to non-interest.

I'm just now bringing out my vine critter hordes, which is why I wanted to continue.

[Calahan]

I can't say I'd lose any sleep over this game ending right now. I wouldn't put this game in the 'fun' category, but neither has it slipped into the 'pain in the arse' one yet.

But I think the credibility of this game has been questionable for a long time due to the insane number of drop-outs we have had, and I don't see any way a winner can be declared until there have been a lot more human v human wars. Human v AI wars are something to feel shame over, and are certainly not an achievement.

What has annoyed me most I think is that there has been a regular pattern in this game of.... we lose some good nations to the AI (eg. Nief / Van) and the game turns farcical for a while, but recovers. Then the moment the game gets back on track, we lose another load of good nations (Oceania / Yomi). And now once again, just as we're getting over that round of loses, we're hit by the huge lose of Fomoria, maybe Ulm, and a sub for Abysia. I am struggling to see how this game can continue in it's present form unless human homes can be found for the stalers. As more AI's would just be the last straw IMO.

If it comes to a vote then I'd go with calling this game void / undecided, and starting afresh. Although if the scale is the same, I'd only be interested in playing if there was some serious vetting of players done for the sign-up. I really don't want to be prejudiced against new / unknown players, but there has to be some form of vouching for players for large scale games. Maybe 2-3 positive references for each player signing up. And while I don't feel that annoyed at having spent 100+ hours on this game for no reward, as I did enjoy many parts of it (and reward as in a proper conclusion). But I would be reluctant to go into such a game in the future if I knew there was a high chance of it becoming another AI-infested joke by turn 40.


Re: Revolution - I've heard from PashaDawg, and apparently Revolution has gone on vacation (it was him playing Caelum in PashaDawg's Asia Twist game). So Ulm are likely to continue staling for the foreseeable future if nothing is done.

[Executor]

Sorry to see this game end so sadly, I rather enjoyed it while I was in in.

However I agree with Calahan about large scale games,
it's a little harsh not to allow anyone to join but having such large games where people drop out like here, like I did , is very irresponsible and very easily tilts the balance of the game.
Only people who can commit to the game should be able to join, and don't bail when any little thing goes wrong.

I was in another damn large game with 400 provinces, and at one point we had more AI's than human players, and quite a lot more.
So, some sort of vouching system or alike is a must for larger games I feel.

[Baalz]

Alright, sounds like far more people are tepid about continuing this game which I'm sure will lead to even more drop outs. By the powers vested in me as game admin I declare everyone who's played till now a winner! Congrats all around.

[Zeldor]

If you want to play that map again you need to make preplaced starting locations really. As many locations as players exactly. And some parts of the map may need tweaking [well, probably population of provinces made by hand]. Of course Burnsabers UWGEM should be added too, for so much water available here. Water is extremely boring here.

[Jazzepi]

I'm pretty sure I had this game in the bag, unless there was some enomorous multi-nation rallying that I couldn't handle, since I've had the chalice for the last, I dunno, twenty turns or something. I was also sitting on top of the 60% blood discount site, and my blood economy was justtt coming into its own. Next turn I would have had around 15 or so vampire counts. I was casting wish every turn off of Rhodium, my pretender, either for blood slaves or gems. Multiple well equipped tarts running around, and a cubic ton of fulled equipped golems. I've included my most recent game turn for your purview.

This has been an extremely frustrating experience for me because I didn't make my neighbors go AI, but I got surrounded by people dropping out. The only real fight I had was with Arco at the very beginning of the game, and from then on out it was basically steam roll. Trumantor wasn't AI at the beginning of the fight, but he didn't put any PD in any of his provinces, so I seeded them with scouts and took a bunch at the beginning. His Jarl bless was pretty useless as well, and him getting turned to AI was probably better than what would have happened otherwise.

I even thought I had excellent battle plans picked out against Sauro, Yomi, and Oceanian but I never really needed to use anything that complicated against any of them when they went AI. Then Burnsaber went AI and I got into the water otherwise it would have belonged entirely to Helheim.

But I'm tired of Calahan whining about people going AI giving others unfair advantages, and then saying stuff like this "Human v AI wars are something to feel shame over, and are certainly not an achievement." Which is clearly aimed solely at me, and what the **** ever, I don't feel shame because my neighbors submitted "turn me to AI" commands, I didn't do anything wrong.

And Baalz breaking his own pledge. I mean, really?, no effort to find a sub for Lanka, or Ulm, both fine positions, and then declaring the game over without any real consensus. TBH, it probably would be useless to try to stuff subs into those positions at this point, but the whole thing still reeks of hypocrisy.

Nobody wants to play in unfun games. I certainly don't, but I was hoping I would finally get to fight some real people in the next couple of turns. I figured Ulm would rally against me with Lanka, and possibly Argatha Dis, and there would be some interesting multi-nation fighting, but then the constant granting of extensions causing everyone to mass stale, the people going AI, and the sudden declaration of the game being over really ruined any prospects of me bringing any kind of force to bear.

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

Jazzepi:

I know the pain. But I had 2 games [same time, same nation!] with very good chances to win. But both ended in a draw [I was an admin in one], because of either people going AI or general lost of interest. It sucks after investing so much time and killing some people and really building nice powerhouse [like 75% forge bonus on Nataraja].

[Calahan]

@ Jazzepi

My comments about the wars against the AI were aimed at the entire game, and not at any individual(s). I apologise if you thought my comments were aimed at you, but I'm not sure what I can do if our past disagreements and whatever grudges you hold against me, results in you interpreting my comments as being directed at you.

Several nations made huge gains when their neighbours went AI, and it's impossible to deny that it seriously affected the course of this game in a very negative way. I know nobody asked to have AI neighbours, nor am I suggesting that anyone did anything wrong in having AI neighbours. But none of this has any relevance to the fact that too many nations gained powerful positions in this game due to staling or AI neighbours. And this directly affected the credibility of the game, and played a significant part in the decision to end the game without a winner. (and just one of several reasons why I whine whenever I see the AI appearing in games)

And I also intend to continue to whine and moan about players turning AI or dropping out of games until I see an improvement. As I am very tired of my games being disrupted or ruined by it happening, and my time wasted as a result. Such as the fine example on offer here. If anyone claims that nations turning AI is either a good thing, or something that doesn't have a huge effect on the outcome of games, then they are pretty much delusional as far as I'm concerned.