Conceptual Balance Mod 1.5 - Page 11

Squirrelloid · #1 August 24th, 2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trumanator

I am posting a list of heroes that I think still need improving in CBM/WH. For the most part, they are non-mage heroes, as I think that they are the most problematic and least scalable. I am going in the order that they appear in the saved game attached to the WH thread that shows them all.

(list snipped)

The EA Atlantis hero who's basically a map move 0 living pillar. Give the guy some map move. I mean, he's a commander LP, so he's prime thug material, but he can't fricking go anywhere!

Burnsaber · #2 August 23rd, 2009, 03:43 AM

I was looking at the "Son of Sea" pretender. He's pretty useless, IMHO. All water nations already have good acceess to water magic and why would any UW nation bring air breathers underwater? Then I started thinking that isn't the gay basically Poseidon?

With a minor description change, you could add "storms" into his profile and give him W2A1 as starting paths. Then he'd at least give access to a new path.

LDiCesare · #3 August 23rd, 2009, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

I was looking at the "Son of Sea" pretender. He's pretty useless, IMHO. All water nations already have good acceess to water magic and why would any UW nation bring air breathers underwater? Then I started thinking that isn't the gay basically Poseidon?

With a minor description change, you could add "storms" into his profile and give him W2A1 as starting paths. Then he'd at least give access to a new path.

Poseidon isn't so much a god of storms as he is the god of earthquakes so if he is an inspiration it should be Earth rather than his brother's Air that you'd want to add.

Burnsaber · #4 August 24th, 2009, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

I was looking at the "Son of Sea" pretender. He's pretty useless, IMHO. All water nations already have good acceess to water magic and why would any UW nation bring air breathers underwater? Then I started thinking that isn't the gay basically Poseidon?

With a minor description change, you could add "storms" into his profile and give him W2A1 as starting paths. Then he'd at least give access to a new path.

Poseidon isn't so much a god of storms as he is the god of earthquakes so if he is an inspiration it should be Earth rather than his brother's Air that you'd want to add.

Yeah, that would work too. There point is that W3 titan is just useless for water nations. If it gave access to some other paths, it might be worthwhile. W2E1 would be good for blesses.

Sombre · #5 August 23rd, 2009, 08:23 PM

Except there's the small matter of the mr check?

Kuritza · #6 August 24th, 2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sombre

Except there's the small matter of the mr check?

I dont know if you wanted this answer to be ironic, but as far as I can tell, its not. MR check is a rather small matter indeed.

Every time I read 'MR over 18 is unpenetrable' I dont know if I should laugh or headdesk. When one failed check means death/charm/uselesness (and probably death), even MR 25 is a very poor protection. Unless, of course, you have to face just one unscripted mage in the rear of the battlefield who will cast one or two blindnesses obefore auto-routing with the rest of the now-slaughtered army.

Balance-wise, paralyze is lvl 4 (in a not-so-useful for the early game path) and requires S2. Also, keep in mind that Astral path is meant to be a primary counter to single powerful combatants.
Blindness is now lvl 2 in Alteration, which also contains all maneer of buffs, and only requires F1.

Sombre · #7 August 24th, 2009, 11:35 AM

No, it's not ironic. You may think I'm overestimating the utility of mr against blindness, soul slay etc, but I think you're underestimating it.

You said any fire mage could easily counter SCs with blindness. I simply don't believe this is true with the mr check. The math with mr checks has never really seemed to match what actually happens in the game, but I think you'd need a LOT of mages casting blindness to make 25 mr 'very poor protection'. We're not talking about anything more than 'one mage casting it twice' working here.

Kuritza · #8 August 24th, 2009, 12:40 PM

Math with mr checks never matched what actually happens in game indeed.

Sometimes you will need a lot of mages casting blindness, but sometimes first casting penetrates magic resistance and kills SC.
My friend once ran some VotD checks. It took him lots of tries to actually penetrate MR of a pretender God, just as math suggests. Later his opponent killed 2 of his SCs within three turns, with three to five attempts, dont remember exactly. Etc, etc.
Thus, rather high possibility of a F1 mage with Alteration 2 researched crippling/killing your pretender or equipped raider is hardly a good thing. Random element must be under control; imagine chess where Pawns can retaliate, killing attacking Queens and Castles by rolling 20. Pwns!

Burnsaber · #9 August 24th, 2009, 01:00 PM

I think blindness is fine the way it is. Even in CBM, fire is the second weakest path in the game. Why should all tricks of fire magic be negated by fire resistance?

Kuritza · #10 August 24th, 2009, 02:05 PM

Fire is not THAT weak. Its a very good evocation path, also some of the best items require fire (firebrands (hell yeah), dragon helms, flambeaus/holy scourges, lightless lanterns, fever fetishes, rune smashers, charcoal shields, shields of gleaming gold, several nice arts etc). The only thing it lacks is good summons - but hey, no one is perfect.
And even if fire was as weak as some of us believe, its not a reason to make fire better than astral at countering SCs. At the very least blindness should be Alt 4, as high as Paralyze.
Imho, of course.