APC Development and related topics.

[Karagin]

An issue with APCs/IFVs for the US, is the Army can't make it's mind up. They were supposed to have removed/replaces all of the 113s with Brads or Strykers, still hasn't happened. Then they were to have everything upgraded firepower wise, that still hasn't happened.

They are still looking at replacing the HMMMVV and MRAPs, or some mix of the two. Along with new trucks to replace the FMTV ones they have currently. It's almost as if they are back to the Inter-War years and trying to figure out what works and what Congress will pay for.

[Mobhack]

It's nice to know the Britih army is not alone with its faffing about and p*ssing money away on design stuties and mismanagement. We called it FRES...

[Karagin]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

It's nice to know the Britih army is not alone with its faffing about and p*ssing money away on design stuties and mismanagement. We called it FRES...

We call it the MIC aka Military Industrial Complex...aka the contractors that will sell you a $400 toolset that on the civilian side runs about $200.

Right before I got out, we were supposed to get the new NVGs aka night vision, and we boxed up all of ours, only to find out that our battalion was not one of the selected to get the new stuff. Fun times...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright something positive, the USMC has approved, via the DOD of course, the fielding of the AVC/APC variant starting in Oct.2020.

So for my USMC buddy, I'm thinking it'll take about 9 months+ to fully equip and turn in their existing equipment. So I'm thinking JUN or OCT 2021 for FOC.

Your thoughts on the matter?
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ober_2020.html

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Alright something positive, the USMC has approved, via the DOD of course, the fielding of the AVC/APC variant starting in Oct.2020.

We currently have them available in July 2020 (I usually use a mid-year deployment if other info isn't available) so it was a pretty close guess.

I'll add this to my list of things to submit to Don for inclusion in the master files.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the following provides another "piece of the puzzle" as to why the AJAX and WARRIOR CSP Programs have been delayed. German KMW and Frances NEXTAR are just "waiting in the wings" to offer the BOXER T-40 to replace the WARRIOR CSP and the latter to offer the JAGUAR for the troubled AJAX (The WARRIOR CSP is at this point in development proving to be much less "troublesome" in its development and testing.).

AJAX date change will be needed and I'm thinking NET DEC 2021. They are STILL at only 12 operational test beds, not good.

Will need to look more into the WARRIOR CSP (Designed to be operational through 2040.) which is an improved version of the WARRIOR 2000.

I've already posted on the AJAX problems even just recently.
https://www.army-technology.com/feat...ehicle-delays/

The following are continuing "tidbits" concerning the UK's Defense Review...
https://www.army-technology.com/feat...-and-bots-cgs/
https://www.army-technology.com/feat...ntally-change/

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

It says "US Marines to field new ACV Amphibious Combat Vehicle APC variant in October 2020"

and 10/120 is good enough for me

[MarkSheppard]

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...late_2020.html

The Russian Army will receive upgraded BMP-2M infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) with a new Berezhok combat module armed with a 30mm gun and a Kornet (NATO reporting name: AT-14 Spriggan) antitank missile system, the Defense Ministry’s press office said.

The BMP-2M is an upgraded version of the BMP-2 IFV with the Berezhok combat module. The vehicle transports soldiers and increases their mobility, arms and protection on the battlefield. The Berezhok manned combat module is a turret with a new set of weapons. It has a combined sight with independent stabilization of the visor in two planes. It combines optical, thermal and laser range finders, as well as a missile guiding system.

The Berezhok is said to be a cost-effective update, which dramatically increases the firepower of the basic BMP-2 and leaves its protection almost untouched. he turret weighs about 3,250 kg and carries a heavy armament suite integrating a Gryasev-Shipunov 2A42 30 mm automatic cannon, an AGS-30M 30 mm automatic grenade launcher, a Kalashnikov PKTM 7.62 mm coaxial general-purpose machinegun, and four ready-use Kornet-E-family (NATO reporting name: AT-14 Spriggan) ATGMs in two two-cell banks mounted on either side of the turret.

The upgraded BMP-2 with the new arms exceeds the organic BMP-2 capabilities 3.8 times. Compared to the baseline BMP-2, the Berezhok is equipped with a far better sensor suite. The turret has received an automatic target tracker and a ballistic computer. According to KBP, the module fires up to two missiles in salvo mode in order to score higher hit probability. The Berezhok increases the capabilities of the BMP-2 IFV fourfold. The upgraded BMP-2M vehicle features a round-the-clock automatic fire control system for Kornet guided missiles to destroy heavily-armored targets at a distance of 8 km (5 mi), as well as air targets.

https://militaryleak.com/2020/04/30/...ting-vehicles/

On April 26, 2020, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported a planned delivery of 60 Berezhok-2M IFVs to the units of the Russian Army (Sukhoputniye Voyska). The Russian Army is set to receive more than 60 BMP-2M with the Berezhok combat module. In September 2017, the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Tula-based Instrument Design Bureau (KBP, a subsidiary of state corporation Rostec) signed a contract for the modernization of 540 BMP-2 IFVs airborne infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) to the Berezhok standard. The deliveries of the vehicles were launched in 2018-2019 and the Russian troops are now reported to have received some 30-40 BMP-2M Berezhok weapon systems.

The BMP-2M Berezhok station is the updated organic turret of the BMP-2, which carries a modernized armament suite. Compared to the baseline BMP-2, the Berezhok is equipped with a far better sensor suite. The turret has received an automatic target tracker and a ballistic computer. The upgraded combat module features a combined sight with an independent two-axis field-of-view stabilizer, a thermal imager, a laser rangefinder, and a control unit for anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs). The Berezhok is said to be a cost-effective update, which dramatically increases the firepower of the basic BMP-2 and leaves its protection almost untouched.

The Berezhok turret weighs up to 3,250 kg and carries a heavy armament suite integrating a 30 mm automatic cannon, an automatic grenade launcher, a coaxial general-purpose machinegun, and four ready-use ATGMs in two two-cell banks mounted on either side of the turret. The turret has received an automatic target tracker and a ballistic computer. The detection range for a tank-type target is up to 5,000 m, target identification at night using the thermal channel is possible at up to 3,000 m. The turret is also equipped with independent sights of commander and gunner, allowing them to work in ‘hunter-killer’ mode. The gunner`s sight has four channels: optical, thermal imaging, laser rangefinder and ATGM control channel.

The Gryasev-Shipunov 2A42 30 mm has ammunition load of 500 shells. AGS-30M 30 mm automatic grenade launcher can fire three types of grenades, namely, VOG-17M, VOG-30, GPD-30, being able to destroy personnel targets at the distances up to 1700-2100 m. Berezhok can fire five types of Kornet munitions, namely anti-tank tandem-warhead 9M133-1/9M133-2 and anti-personnel thermobaric 9M133F-1/9M133F-2/9M133F-3 missiles. The module has also received 30mm AG-30 automatic grenade launcher (AGL) and six 902B Tucha smoke grenade launchers. 2A42 gun can fire armor-piercing and high-explosive shells, being able to destroy targets at the distances up to 2000 m and 4000 m, respectively.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is many ways is an ongoing topic about a "controversial" topic however, this article clears up some of the ambiguity on what's really going on. It's a story of two countries, programs and paths taken. Also with a surprising revelation of who's getting the "Brass Ring" first for an FOC System.

I am speaking of UK & FRANCE/AJAX & SCORPIAN and the CT-40.

To save time I'm simply going to quote from the story...

Under Heading: CT40 Cannon: proven system or cause of delays?

"In recent evidence, given to theDefence Select Committee, General Dynamics Land Systems – UK and Lockheed Martin UK both laid some blame for delays to their programmes at the door of the CT40 cannon."

"In France, Nexter’s Jaguar, part of the country’s Scorpion land vehicles programme, uses the same weapon as AJAX and Warrior CSP. Jaguar was contracted in 2014 and is due to enter service at the end of this year."
(That is the surprise but "due" isn't the same "will". It just bears closer watching.)

"So, why have UK vehicles faced delays while France has progressed at speed?"

Under Heading: Same cannon, different subsystems

"The adoption of the full system is part of the reason that Nexter has had success with Jaguar, while the UK has faced delays."

"In the development of its turret for Warrior CSP, Lockheed Martin did not take all the components from CTA International, instead choosing to develop its own ammunition handling system that feeds from the side rather than the bottom of the weapon."

"Nexter added that as a direct result of these trials (2006 & 2008-Mine), the company chose to adopt the entire CT40 system, including all the components listed above. The French company said that Jaguar benefited from the trials by leveraging the risk reduction achieved by the 2006 and 2008 trials."

"In the development of its turret, Lockheed Martin told Army Technology that in order to ‘[achieve] required fire control system performance and safety’ the company chose to develop its own ‘integrated systems’ from UK suppliers. The company added that this allowed them to develop a modular system used on both AJAX and Warrior CSP."

At an oral evidence session of the UK Parliament’s Defence Select Committee, Francis Tusa Editor of Defence Analysis told MPs: “The problems we have had, in the UK, with the 40 millimetre cased telescoped ammo have not been replicated in France, where they have taken the system, all of it, as designed. It is now in full-scale production.

“They now have a turret that would fit if we wanted to, just for the sake of argument (Which the UK is getting.-Mine), put it on to a Boxer. It works absolutely fine. Yes, there have been problems along the way, without a shadow of a doubt, but it works. That is because they (France-Mine) had a much more coordinated approach to the development, design and then how they were going to put it into production.”

Under Heading: Problems along the way in the UK

To be sure as noted by Francis Tusa Editor of Defence Analysis above there were some minor technical issues with the CT-40, however they were all addressed by 2014. Again the French are well ahead of the UK in the total system as that's how they moved ahead, by keeping it all together, weapon and subsystems.

The first few paras deal with the "blame game" from the UK Manufactures Group on the CT-40, Contract issues and miscommunications, I leave these for the reader to discern.

Moving on...

In its evidence, General Dynamics also said that a ‘stable and defined build standard’ was not realised until the AJAX contract was recast in 2019.

Countering both companies’ evidence, the MOD told Army Technology: “Qualification of the weapon has continued in parallel with the development of the platforms. Whilst this did require some change and resultant schedule impact, the slippage due to CT40 was not a significant contributor to the delays in the development of the platforms themselves.

“The CT40 design was fixed for cannon production in March 2015 and the interface has not changed; in 2015 CT40 was sufficiently characterised for integration.”

"A source also told Army Technology that by 2019 cannon qualifications were done and added that during the development process Lockheed Martin made little effort to work with CTA International, instead preferring to work with the MOD on issues with the cannon as it is supplied as government furnished equipment (GFE)."

"Army Technology understands that the MOD mandated the cannon as AJAX and Warrior CSP’s main armament but did not mandate the weapons subsystems, hence Lockheed’s decision to develop its own."

Under Heading: What’s next for Warrior, AJAX and Jaguar?

"As it stands, all three (Really 4 I have found a couple of articles suggesting the German BOXER T40 has been fully tested, as like the French, they bought the complete system.-Mine) vehicles featuring the CT40 cannon have largely ironed out development issues and are making good progress. Lockheed Martin expects a production contract to be signed for Warrior CSP next year, General Dynamics has finished production of 60 AJAX (12 are in OPEVAL with an active unit.-Mine vehicles, and Jaguar is slated for deliveries late this year."

"Nexter for its part is offering the MOD a Boxer MIV module fitted with the turret used on its Jaguar vehicle. The system dubbed Boxer T40 would fill a requirement for direct fire capability for the British Army’s planned STRIKE Brigades (This could kill WARRIOR CSP.-Mine).

"A question mark has been placed over the Warrior CSP programme, with one source telling Army Technology that the vehicle is in the most doubt as the UK looks to reassess its forces in an upcoming integrated review of defence security and foreign policy. Earlier this year it was reported by the Times that the UK was assessing options to axe its entire fleet of Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) and IFVs."

And I'm leaving it there that Defense Review is putting CHALLENGER 2 (And upgrade.), AJAX and finally WARRIOR CSP in doubt.

So CHALLENGER 2is in service. AJAX is in OPEVAL, WARRIOR CSP still in finishing touches of development and JAGUAR becoming operational by mid+ - 2021 I'm thinking.

The "wildcard" will be the BOXER T40 which I feel could contribute to the end of both AJAX and WARRIOR CSP. The other driver not mentioned is ARIES which if I read it correctly, in one of my most recent refs, is about to start production and will have a RECON version as well.

I also see another path for AJAX in that MOD does buy the 60 units as noted above and ends the production run there.

We definitely know one thing for sure though and that is AJAX will need a new START, if we allow for a quick with no further issues during the OPEVAL, then I recommend JAN 2022 (Maybe, as I see a smaller path to it OCT 2021) to include an increase in TI/GSR to Min 45/Max50 as well.

I don't know what more I can add to this except from my folder of refs that covers segments or more of this full article.
https://www.army-technology.com/feat...use-of-delays/

Regards,
Pat

[MarkSheppard]

Some more diving into the Japanese OBAT:

Units 094 (Type 89) and 095 (Type 89 Kai) may have incorrect Weapon #2.

Currently, both have Weapon 158 (Chu-MAT ATGM) as Weapon #2.

In all the sources I can find for the Type 89 IFV:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Type_89_IFV
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/89%E5%...97%98%E8%BB%8A

It is described as having the Type 79 Jyu-MAT ATGM, which is already in the Japanese OBAT as Weapon 157 (Jyu-MAT ATGM).

I decided to take a deep dive into Japanese ATGMs since I was already looking at stuff:

Sources:
http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/japan.html
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/64%E5%...B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/79%E5%...B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/87%E5%...B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/96%E5%...83%86%E3%83%A0
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8...B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/01%E5%...B0%8E%E5%BC%BE

Random Japanese Trivia
Normally, the Acronym for ATGM should be Anti Tank Missile (ATM), but due to social unrest in the 1960s in Japan, since the JGSDF was just getting started, in order to avoid a mistake like ATM = Atom in public perception, the JGSDF decided to call their ATGMs as MAT = Missile Anti Tank.

Type 64 MAT / ATM-1 / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-3
There were two versions, ATM-1 and ATM-1B. The -1B version had a lengthened warhead section to increase penetration power, but the missile length remained the same. This was a wired MCLOS missile flying very slowly at 85 m/sec.

Type 79 Jyu-MAT / ATM-2 / Jyu = Heavy / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-9
Basically, it is very similar to BGM-71 TOW, and is in the same role (Heavy MAT / 通称重MAT) but with Japanese operational needs taken into mind, such as having a anti-landing craft mode. Wired SACLOS at 200 m/sec flight speed.

Type 87 Chu-MAT / ATM-3 / Chu = Medium / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-40
This is in the Middle MAT (中MAT) role, and it was designed to replace the Type 64 MAT for infantry units. Is a Semi Active Laser Homer, with 250 m/sec flight speed.

Type 96 MPMS / ATM-4 / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-20
This was designed to replace both the Type 87 Medium MAT and Type 79 Heavy MAT in either role; but ended up being in a completely new category as the first Fiber Optic Wire Guided Missile in service in the West. As before, it includes the usual Japanese "anti-landing craft" mode. Due to the extreme cost of the Type 96 MPMS, only a few were procured.

Type 01 LMAT / ATM-5
Designed as successor for the 84mm Carl Gustaf M2 as an infantry AT weapon. It's an IR homer which contains the first uncooled IR sensor in a ATGM. It's basically like the Javelin and Spike, but Japanese.

MMPM / XATM-6 / Shin-Chu-MAT / Shin = New; so the name means New Medium ATM
This is a IR homer / Semi Active Laser Homer with some technology taken from the Type 01 Light MAT. It was first funded in the 2009 budget, and the first infantry units began to receive them in 2011.

84mm Recoilless Rifle (B) / Carl Gustaf M3
Procurement began in the 2012 budget, with preferential deployment to the Amphibious Rapid Deployment Brigade followed by the 1st Airborne Brigade. In order to distinguish it from the earlier 84mm Recoilless Rifle (Carl Gustaf M2) procured by the JGSDF, the (B) was appended to the name. Unlike the earlier M2, the M3 will not be purely anti-armor, but a multipurpose weapon.

Random Note
In Japanese Service, the Panzerfaust 3 (Weapon 032 in Japanese OBAT), is named LAM = Light-Weight Anti Tank munition).