CM arty modeling

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Seems a good place for this article as U.S. prepares and is getting away from TNT for it's artillery munitions.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17107/

Regards,
Pat

[Imp]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Seems a good place for this article as U.S. prepares and is getting away from TNT for it's artillery munitions.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17107/

Regards,
Pat

Went through quite a lot of tests including being hit by bullets shrapnel & a shaped charge jet all without cooking off.

[KV7]

Whilst US forces use laser guided artillery rounds sparingly, this is not so with the USSR, a significant number of 240 mm Smel'chak guided rounds were used in Afghanistan and Chechna, which were apparently quite effective at clearing caves and bunkers.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...russia/2s4.htm

To model this, perhaps a FO can be created with a HE ATGM round, with HE kill and warhead of 240mm mortar ?

Also the Krasnopol 152mm laser guided munition is widely available to Russian arty, it is not nearly as fragile and expensive as the US Copperhead 155mm

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by KV7

Whilst US forces use laser guided artillery rounds sparingly, this is not so with the USSR, a significant number of 240 mm Smel'chak guided rounds were used in Afghanistan and Chechna, which were apparently quite effective at clearing caves and bunkers.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...russia/2s4.htm

To model this, perhaps a FO can be created with a HE ATGM round, with HE kill and warhead of 240mm mortar ?

Also the Krasnopol 152mm laser guided munition is widely available to Russian arty, it is not nearly as fragile and expensive as the US Copperhead 155mm

The SP series games do not model third-party guidance, so there are no copperhead type munitions, or mavericks being fired by helos in full defilade onto spots designated by scout helos etc.

Cheers
Andy

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by KV7

To model this, perhaps a FO can be created with a HE ATGM round, with HE kill and warhead of 240mm mortar ?

Because that is an ATGM - an instantly available direct-fire weapon that can also opfire against enemy units. And has direct-fire weapon ATGM rules (it can be dodged or the firer can be opfired, for example) There is no remote firing battery, no requirement for comms with same, and no fire delays. Also, loss of the observer leads to loss of the round (which is actually sitting in an arty piece back aways), not just a designator.

So - not really doable by that kludge.

(The indirect arty mission type IDF_COPPER has been in the SP2 code since the start - but is not actually implemented. So SSI thought of it, but did not/could not do it.)

Andy

[KV7]

Thanks andy.

I understand that is a third/fourth rate fix and the mechanics aren't yet there to do it properly. If the game code could be fixed to make it work that would be great.

Would a second weapon slot on the mortar with acc 100, ammo 1 work, perhaps with more HE kill and HE penetration to model the increased acc, then you can call it in like any other arty and be pretty sure it will land on the hex it was called in on.

You could of course then use it in direct fire mode, with visability at 80-90 you could snipe targets from your deploy zone, just run away if you get any atgm or arty attacking your position.

The downside here is that when you call the mission you need to turn on the right slot on the mortar you gave the fire mission to to choose the right round. Otherwise it will just shoot both the normal and guided round at the same target, and blow through all your guided munitions.

[Mobhack]

Accuracy does not affect indirect fire - only direct fire. Thus of no use for simulating laser guided or GPS indirect fires.

Use a GPS equipped FOO (with TI or GSR) and a laser range-finder with LOS on the target and your indirect fires will be rather accurate. Part of that technology 'package' could be rationalised as the use of LGM, where appropriate.

Andy

[KV7]

Fair enough, I always thought it did, becuase a rocket rife mission will scatter everywhere, whereas if you use a howitzer it is 0-3 hex deviation only. I assume that is becuase of weapon class ?

[Mobhack]

Indirect accuracy is affected by weapon class - MRL MPI scatter is significantly more than tube arty and the battery has a wider pattern. Mortar battery patterns tend to be wider than guns, but scatter is about the same.

Mainly though, it is the difference between having an observer with eyes-on or not that affects arty scatter (and also size of the battery's pattern).

Unobserved fire is wilder - it is searching map fire. Firing on a gold spot is more like observed fire though, even if blind fire.

Andy

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I'm bringing back an "old friend" it's needed again. So the discussion will have to be with the U.S Army, the data is based on extensive testing but also post combat analysis as well. Pages 2 - 5 are the most useful to the discussion on the main forum page. Please read as myself and others have that were involved at the time. The tables in the refs cclearly shows if anything CM and Unitary rounds were generally under strength in the game at that time and now for the sake of discussion. Makes you wonder why the Swedes spent so time and money to ensure that they're Leo MBT's were the best top protected in there class. They saw what top attack weapons can do to tanks after testing they're own 120mm AT mortar round on a bunch of T-72 tanks they had. It's in this thread somewhere started by DRG. This issue keeps popping up every 2 - 4 years it seems and keep doing so I'm sure. There's another thread on this topic that also started in JAN 2010 in here or the main forum. Also note the first couple pages of the thread you're in now. Always nice to get feedback from guys who were there as well.

Regards,
Pat