Magic Items under CBM

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Sir_Dr_D

In terms of gemgens is it possible to instead of making them unique, make them more expensive and add other abilites to them. They could raise stats such as magic resitance and protection, or auto cast some spell. The idea would be to make them expensive enough so they are only worthwhile for certain mages or SC's equipped for combat.

No.

[Sir_Dr_D]

There is no reason that every item needs to be equally usefull. If some items are more used then others that is fine. If a particual item on average is only used once per multi-player game, and that use is a valid tactical option at that time, the item will have served its role. We just want to make sure there isn't items that are never usefull.


I am not all that familiar with the wraith sword, but would it not be a good counter against thugs and SC's in certain situations?

[Valerius]

Following up on one of Amorphous' points, the proposed gem cost changes to the various brands have the net effect of helping SCs and harming thugs. A few more gems investment in an SC is not a big deal but thugs need to be equipped cheaply. I also don't think frost/fire brands need to have their damage nerfed. Though they are commonly seen weapons they aren't unbalancing. And again, SCs will benefit nicely since thugs will pose less of a threat to them while their own generally high strength will enable them to still do plenty of damage if they use these weapons. Of course, I doubt they'd choose a frost/fire brand since they'd have an AOE and AN (!) weapon available in the form of the boosted shadow brand. Everyone has their own opinion of balance but I prefer not to do anything to make SCs stronger and I think that's what these changes amount to.

[Sombre]

I agree the wraith sword is pretty bad currently. 2 handed weapons need to be particularly powerful in order to make up for the fact they're two handed, or they need to be cheap so you can use them as throwaway weapons on anti-SC thugs, who you wouldn't want to give a shield or second weapon necessarily.

Wraith Sword is neither. It drains life, which is good for killing chaff and armies, but two handed weapons aren't really suited to that duty. It does reasonable damage so you can use it vs SCs and thugs, but there are a variety of other two handed and even one handed weapons that are better at that and cheaper too.

[Psycho]

Maybe vine shield can be nerfed as well, since it is definitely the best choice for the shield by far. I'd put it higher in the research tree - constr 6.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Psycho

Maybe vine shield can be nerfed as well, since it is definitely the best choice for the shield by far. I'd put it higher in the research tree - constr 6.

Agreed. This is the most used shield by far - unless I don't have Nature gems...
As for Brands - I agree with Sombre that cheapness is main attrcation of the Frost one. Same price Stick and Demon whip (CBM) have worse att/def. Shadowbrand is more costly with a risk to user, which is also true for Evening Star (but how famously the latter clears crowds! Definitely shouldn't be too cheap/easy to make). So in this group Fire brand is also the cheapest considering that it also gives FR and is AP. This second group can be used against thugs/SCs, but it still isn't optimal for it - better options are present, unless, of course, you didn't know that you would fight other thugs or are constrained in gems. So - I wouldn't say they should be nerfed in damage, but I also wouldn't say they should be placed low in the research tree as current CBM does. With Stick & (probably) Whip at 2, Frost & Fire brands at 4, Shadow & Evening Star at 6 it should be OK, I think.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Psycho

Maybe vine shield can be nerfed as well, since it is definitely the best choice for the shield by far. I'd put it higher in the research tree - constr 6.

Really? I almost universally prefer the Eye Shield, since even if you run into an unexpected thug it means you have a good chance of killing it.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Really? I almost universally prefer the Eye Shield, since even if you run into an unexpected thug it means you have a good chance of killing it.

Definitely. Vine shield is better against chaff, better against elite units as you can't get swarmed easily and better against thugs, since eye shield requires a MR check which a thug will often pass, but if he gets tangles by vines you get a free hit, which can be enough to kill him.

It's also better than gold shield, since it doesn't have problems with bersekers and undead. And charcoal and lucky coin are rarely used - you need units that can survive being swarmed to use them. Vine shield is the goto shield.

[Mardagg]

Ive never used the vine shield vs physically strong SC`s.
There is a strength check involved IIRC,so do you still get a free hit vs very strong units or do they instantly break free?

I like to mix in the eye shield vs chaff ...only a few turns and there is generally no one left that can hit you.Also,vs stronger units/thugs u can often do some serious affliction problems with abit luck,even if you lose.

generally,Nature gems are pretty sparse in mid to late game,thats something to consider when evaluating the Vine shield
vs the Earth/fire gem shields.

Also,the parry and protection value for the vine and eye shield are much worse than from most others.

I do like the scutata a lot,btw,its pretty good at what it does AND offers Lightning protection which can be useful as it is generally more needed than fire/cold protection which u often already have natural or via brands.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Psycho

Definitely. Vine shield is better against chaff, better against elite units as you can't get swarmed easily and better against thugs, since eye shield requires a MR check which a thug will often pass, but if he gets tangles by vines you get a free hit, which can be enough to kill him.

It's also better than gold shield, since it doesn't have problems with bersekers and undead. And charcoal and lucky coin are rarely used - you need units that can survive being swarmed to use them. Vine shield is the goto shield.

Eye shields inflict permanent damage though. If your guy runs, or theirs gets away, you've still done major damage. As for resisting the effect, its a pretty high check to make, like 18. I blinded a 32 MR Allfather once. Its also almost as good as the vine shield against chaff.