known backstabbers

militarist · #1 May 23rd, 2010, 07:19 PM

I decided to create start a thread with known list of backstabbers. Though diplomacy is Machiavellian in most of games, still breaking NAPs and given words should affect people's reputation. Feel free to add your posts in a proposed format: player, games. Be ready to explain the story, but it's not necessary unless the one who is blamed in breaking NAP wants to protest. I don't want a list to be too long and I represent those players who would prefer more honesty in relations, so the goal of this list is not to mark anyone who did it in the remote past, but to make people think twice when planning doing it in the future. So post only those NAP breaks which happened after first post of this thread was made. I know many players believe that backstabing is a normal part of the game. I don't mind. This list is to help newbie players, who have no dozens of games to know who is who of players, to get rid of pink glassess before they were backstabbed themselves by closest neighbor.

1. *removed by Annette
2. *removed by Annette

Hadrian_II · #2 May 23rd, 2010, 07:24 PM

If you have problems with backstabbing, why don't you join games with binding diplomacy?

militarist · #3 May 23rd, 2010, 07:41 PM

I have no problems with backstabbing. Just many players want to track backstabbers, it's different.And such list has a sense only for the games with non-binding diplo. In binding diplo games, there are usually in-game methods to punish violators. There are 2 possible extremums, with this diplomacy issue. One extremum is binding dimoplacy. Another is no dimoplacy at all. Without such thing as reputation, we will have more games with defacto no dimoplacy. So the games tend to become one of 2 kindes - binding dimoplacy and no dimoplacy at all. Having such a list creates some sense to at least think twice before making such decision and could lead more games to be of a kind, which is declared - "non-binding dimplacy" as something between two extremums.

Calahan · #4 May 23rd, 2010, 07:49 PM

Many players have no problem at all with backstabbing, as they correctly view it as simply another part of a normal game of Dominions. As Hadrian II says, if anyone doesn't like backstabbing, or the prospect of backstabbing, then they should only play in games with binding diplomacy.

I think this thread will be just about the easiest and most guaranteed way of offending any player that gets listed here. Since from their view they are just playing Dominions the way a lot of players play the game, and indeed view it as playing normally. But in return for this they get branded as 'untrustworthy' by players who feel they have been wronged and betrayed by a player who backstabbed them, and so list them here just to get their revenge (which I'm sure is exactly why you have created this thread in the first place).

Edit: Here's a thread of the last time this sort of list was tried.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35565

militarist · #5 May 23rd, 2010, 07:56 PM

We have democracy here. And, of course, backstabber don't want to be marked.
To avoid such situation as you described - strict description of backstabbing is created - NAP is signed and broken with no notification. I like games with non-binding diplo, and I like backstabbers. Just I want to track them. Any problems? If you don't like the idea, ignore this thread. I know that opinions about backstabbing is 50x50. This thread is for those 50% who want know who is backstabbing because they backstab less or do not backstab. Respect the fact of our existance.
As for revenge.. it is easy to blame in being personal. But it's not a first thread I started about backstabbing. And I see the problem much wider then revange to one player. I just want to know reputation of players and i want to give newbie players this info.

Also , I created this list not to discuss if the idea bad or not. If you don't want to post anything, do not troll here, and create another thread about this thread. This thread is only for the reporting backstabbing. Or about HOW to report it. Not about if it should be reported or not. If you have an idea how to report it more fair - you are welcome. But you should be constructive for the idea in general.

Gandalf Parker · #6 May 23rd, 2010, 08:10 PM

Im all for honorable playing. But backstabbing threads, and others along that line, have been deleted in the past.
After all, its all just opinion

Its probably best just to make note of the people who play honorably. Such as Baalz good player pledge thread

militarist · #7 May 23rd, 2010, 08:21 PM

If someone deletes it it means that it is some kind of violation here. I would be glad to hear it from admins as I didn't see any rules that prohibit it. As for me this thread will only add value, as will give newbie players more realistic view on diplomacy in Dom3, and will help them to have proper expectations.Hardcode dominions players will not find here something new or worthy for them. They know each other and they just don't care if the person they know for years backstabbed someone else, some newbie. Why deleting a thread which adds value? And why would admins did intervention here at all?

Septimius Severus · #8 May 23rd, 2010, 08:21 PM

I agree, I have trouble with the idea of blacklists, etc.

Of course it is up to the moderators to decide.

militarist · #9 May 23rd, 2010, 08:31 PM

If you have trouble - don't read and don't write.Your rights are not violated. Just some part of community will implement their right on free communication. And If other players want backstab-list, and you want to use a BIG GUN (admins) in protecting your point of view on this point (as far as I understand, that it the purpose of your post), it will not be something new. And it is not a black list at all, btw. It's sharing of information.

Septimius Severus · #10 May 23rd, 2010, 08:38 PM

I'm actually all for you on the idea that people should honor agreements in the game world and in the real world whenever and wherever possible. If the game allows backstabbing that of course is a different story I guess. I am certainly not jumping to attack you or anything. Anything we can learn from and we can discuss maturely, has merit IMO. I do hate the idea of labeling people though. Perhaps it will result in more honorable conduct in games , that is a possibility. But perhaps there's another way to go about it, say with a pledge post. I know I would sign such a pledge.