what about the future?

[HoneyBadger]

I disagree that trying to maintain order and politeness, as professionals trying to run a business, and then enforcing that, in a professional way, translates in any way to a state of fascism.

If someone comes into a store, and starts harassing the clerks, knocking over displays, and chasing away customers, how is the store manager supposed to react? How would you react, if you were that manager? If that store is what fed your family? Who's supposed "rights" would you put first: the harasser, or yourself and your employees and your customers?

And if your store is knocked over the first time, will you wait passively for it to happen again, or will you take steps to protect and secure your business, even if it means a more disciplined environment than you've had in the past?

Shrapnel is reacting. That's the moral difference here, as I see it.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

I disagree that trying to maintain order and politeness, as professionals trying to run a business, and then enforcing that, in a professional way, translates in any way to a state of fascism.

Who is saying that? Who are you disagreeing with?

[Eximius Sus]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

Who is saying that? Who are you disagreeing with?

Wow, I had to read that sentence 5 times. It's still very confusing. I agree with Fantomen. Who exactly are you talking to?

I liked that movie with the "V"

[Wrana]

Bah! A completely new term - passive agression!
Congratulations, Squirrel! :P

[WraithLord]

Being the ignorant man that I am I learned a number of new terms from Squirrelloid & Soyweiser. Amongst which are: passive-aggressive behavior (damn, so every time I sulk I'm being P.A. ) & ad hominem.

Bah, you can't believe anything Soyweiser says since he's never been to gaming conventions and has a scary avatar to boot

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Bah, you can't believe anything Soyweiser says

That one is true.

Originally Posted by WraithLord

he's never been to gaming conventions

I never said that.

[Edi]

Wow, reading the entire thread starting from scratch was a pretty daunting task. Had to skimread some parts just to get to the end.

Just try to keep personal drama and vendettas out of this thread.

[HoneyBadger]

I was replying to Fantomen (which should be pretty clear, as his is the above post), rereferencing, and then inverting, my own quote, to make it clear that it wasn't seriously applicable to Shrapnel Games.

"Fascism" = the mentioned Nazi party.

Appologies for any confusion, but I didn't find it difficult to read or understand, even after rereading it several times.

[Eximius Sus]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

I was replying to Fantomen (which should be pretty clear, as his is the above post), rereferencing, and then inverting, my own quote, to make it clear that it wasn't seriously applicable to Shrapnel Games.

"Fascism" = the mentioned Nazi party.

Appologies for any confusion, but I didn't find it difficult to read or understand, even after rereading it several times.

But you brought up the Nazi Party? 10 commas per sentence does not make for clarity. If you wish to be clear use simple sentences. (full stop)

Let me see if I can paraphrase you.

1) Shrapnel has the right to make rules and enforce them on its forum.
2) The intent of the rules is to have order and politeness.
2) Shrapnel is not being fascist in doing this enforcement.

Would that about sum up your argument? I'm still wondering who you think disagrees with these points. It does not appear to be Fantomen.

It looks a lot like what Fantomen was saying is that a number of people are refusing to learn from these episodes. And on both sides.

Equating an internet forum with a corner store is disingenious. The revenue models are completely different. If you want to use a simile, try a dance bar. You make money by selling drinks. More drinks = more money but at some point it's too rough. Then you clamp down. But damn few bars permanently ban the heavy drinkers. Send em home in a cab, or to the drunk tank maybe.

Shrapnel makes money by selling games. Games sell by being in the news and print and word of mouth. Does order and politeness put a game on the map of the internet? I doubt it. Take MachineGunJoe's example. The highest ranking thread on Google from this forum is Crossbows and Longbows. Definitely not a polite ramble about let's just all get along.

[Gandalf Parker]

Dance bar might not be bad.
They want people who walk in to see it as a friendly place to meet people, talk, dance. They might offer alcohol but dont want to be seen as a drunk bar. So rowdiness is quickly squashed and escorted out. Repeated rowdiness is indeed banned. In my experience, in numbers fairly equal to forums.

In both cases there are some important points. The owners get to decide what kind of place it will be, what kind of impression it will give, and how much moderation will be done over the members. Any rules and enforcement will be a give & take as far as numbers. But the most important thing to keep in mind is that if the dance bar is too tame and controlled for someone there is definitely a bar down the street for the wilder crowd. Both bars benefit.

As for the profit scheme, THIS is the forum that people most end up at who have NOT bought the game. Whether or not anyone thinks it will work is one thing but can it really be doubted that if it comes to friendly vs open that the friendly is more sales conducive? Right but rude should definitely exist on the net (somewhere) but I dont think its a "sensible" argument that it should be here.