Mod: CBM 1.7 released

[LDiCesare]

I think those changes are all geared towards end-game in many-nations large games.
The only big change I think is ok is the restriction of sanguine dousing rods.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by iRFNA

On the mark of the champion... Would it really "not be worth it" if the weapon part was removed and it became a 5 prot helmet with quickness? In most cases for thugs/SCs, there isn't even an artifact you can forge that is as useful. It would certainly be worth fighting for. Why add so much extra power to a single item? I understand the argument that you want people to really try for it, but if you really want people to do anything for it, you might as well give it every stat bonus from every item in the game. Surely the prot and quickness would be easily sufficient without being so insanely overpowered?

lolwut? The champion item needs to make its user STRONGER, not weaker, which your 5 prot helmet would do in 99% of cases. In order to be an incentive to actually send capable commanders into the arena, rather than just cheap throwaways, the item obtained should actually be valuable. Mark of the champion encourages actually caring about winning the arena, and sending valuable commanders in with the chance of losing them. For a 5 prot helmet, it would seldom be worth it.

[Fantomen]

I understand the thinking behind those changes, but this is not the type of update to CBM I had hoped for to be honest.

The last CBM changed the game radically by removing gemgens, this was a good thing. And the big changes here might be too. But there is a problem with big changes, they need a long time getting used to and ruins lots of strategies.

I would prefer to put those big radical changes on hold for a while, and instead see a update to CBM with all the small fixes and non-controversial changes that has been discussed in the thread.

My suggesstion would be to release a less controversial CBM 1.6.2 while this one is tested.

[Festin]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

I understand the thinking behind those changes, but this is not the type of update to CBM I had hoped for to be honest.

The last CBM changed the game radically by removing gemgens, this was a good thing. And the big changes here might be too. But there is a problem with big changes, they need a long time getting used to and ruins lots of strategies.

I would prefer to put those big radical changes on hold for a while, and instead see a update to CBM with all the small fixes and non-controversial changes that has been discussed in the thread.

My suggesstion would be to release a less controversial CBM 1.6.2 while this one is tested.

I fully agree with this. Removing gemgens was a radical change, and it worked, but it does not mean that CBM needs as many radical changes as possible. EDM, hammers, SDRs - aren't there too many controversial and drastic changes for one release? Any single one of them would be radical enough.

On the other side of things, including Armor Revamp is great (well, I hope so, didn't test it yet), new E booster, Bane Blade change and Trelord boost are great too, Agartha and Machaka boosts are always good, same with Iron Angels for Ulm (the Forge thing... uh, I dunno).

But, to sum it up, this version has too few nation balance changes allowing us to use previously obscure units, spells, etc, too few obviously needed and non-controversial changes (like removing upkeep on Ghost General), and too many massive and mostly unnecessary changes. This is all only my opinion, of course.

[XuanZue]

i don't understand this change:

Jade Knife, Saguine Dousing Rod and Dwarven Hammer unique

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by XuanZue

i don't understand this change:

Unique as in requires Constr 8 and you can only have one.

Or did you mean you don't understand why?

Jade Knife: blood sacrifice is already twice as effective as its supposed to be, so in effect you sort of get a free jade knife with every priest anyway. Letting you compound that with an actual jade knife was just crazy town.

SDR: its a gem gen, and like other gem gens, not good for the game.

Hammers: QM argues its because hammers were necessary to play the game, forced many nation's pretenders to look sort of similar (need E3 capability somewhere), and caused E gems to be over-valued and used on hammers to the exclusion of everything else - and on top of that they add a lot of micromanagement for forging. I only really dispute the undesirability of the last part, but that's why he did it.

[iRFNA]

I didn't really type that well. It uses the armor flame helmet, which is a 20 prot helmet that also raises your base prot to (by?) 5. On top of this it has quickness.

edit:
I did a quick test, and the flame helmet will raise a unit from 12 base body protection to 16, so it's of use to units even with a high base protection.

[PriestyMan]

Originally Posted by iRFNA

I didn't really type that well. It uses the armor flame helmet, which is a 20 prot helmet that also raises your base prot to (by?) 5. On top of this it has quickness.

edit:
I did a quick test, and the flame helmet will raise a unit from 12 base body protection to 16, so it's of use to units even with a high base protection.

And? so it adds some prot. wow. quickness and an attack. its still good, not amazing. not even close to overpowered

[Finalgenesis]

An interesting option would be something similar to Edi's piecemeal edition CBM 1.6, by making the most controversial changes optional.

For example, hammer uniques, it could be if certain players want the to have hammer allocation and planning in the game they can turn it on. Users could customize a game to what they want. Want a dumbed down minimal micro game? Hammer off, booster off ...etc

Though that might cause balancing descrepencies, say if some earth nations were adjusted and weaker thug nations getting forge ability (Eriu, TNN...etc) then you turn hammer on ... Or certain nation getting hammered with no booster access.

[TheConway]

Originally Posted by Finalgenesis

An interesting option would be something similar to Edi's piecemeal edition CBM 1.6, by making the most controversial changes optional.

For example, hammer uniques, it could be if certain players want the to have hammer allocation and planning in the game they can turn it on. Users could customize a game to what they want. Want a dumbed down minimal micro game? Hammer off, booster off ...etc

Though that might cause balancing descrepencies, say if some earth nations were adjusted and weaker thug nations getting forge ability (Eriu, TNN...etc) then you turn hammer on ... Or certain nation getting hammered with no booster access.

This is pretty easy to do already. Just spend 10 minutes with the modding manual and a text editor. You can remove the pieces you dislike, save it as a new document, and use it for your customized game.