Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Not directly game relevant but never-the-less interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtZN...6m1GAg&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyHl...6m1GAg&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkrR...6m1GAg&index=3

New update:

[urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31oJIo8EVwY[/url]

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I truly do this with a "heavy heart", full respect of the history and not to save slots, this is more about not being able to meet the capabilities of these assets in the game due to coding issues etc. Even as I have new data and new units to be added to the game even from other countries, what I'm about to ask has been on my mind on and off for years now since I asked a "similar" question dealing with the game engines ability to improve upon how it treats the attack capabilities of gunships. Going back to "PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON" AC-47 gunships from the below ref...

"They tried the idea with ten, 30 caliber machine guns mounted in a C-47. The idea worked and the Air Force replaced the machine guns with three General Electric, six barrel, rotating mini-guns, reminiscent of the Civil War Gatling guns. These 7.62 mm guns were capable of covering every square foot of a football field with one round, in one minute."
http://www.dc3history.org/aircraftmi...gicdragon.html

We at best can only do a 50 meter attack hex. The newer models are now carrying ATGW which could be set up for stand off attacks, however we have plenty of those already for about the same cost in planes and jets. And there's the issue cost vs. benefit and at one hex and as much as I REALLY like these units I don't see the benefit to the player even as the capabilities have increased over the years to include the latest version just coming online. Cost doesn't normally bother me as Suhiir knows and I've put a fair amount of work into these units across the board in both recommending fixes and otherwise submitting new units over a couple of years not that long ago.

Again I don't like this, but, at the same time I think this matter bears some thought and reflection on what's best for the game and players if nothing can be done to improve it's capabilities. I have a couple of thoughts on the matter for modeling within the "hex world", otherwise I again would ask serious consideration be given to what I'm asking.

Regards,
Pat

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

These 7.62 mm guns were capable of covering every square foot of a football field with one round, in one minute."
http://www.dc3history.org/aircraftmi...gicdragon.html

We at best can only do a 50 meter attack hex.

Fastboat; a Football Field is 48.5 m wide and 109.1 m long; so....

EDIT: Saw that others had replied to it...let's see...

[DRG]

Pat, for the most part they were added as scenario window dressing not a serious in game unit because, as you noted, they simply cannot do what their RL counterparts do. The fact they even circle a target and fire while doing so was an accomplishment only dreamed of in the days of SP2 But of the Triumvirate of off map air assets we HAVE added, gliders, paras and gunships...gunships was the one that never quite worked but they did gradually grow from one or two curiosity units into a bit of a crowd that eats up increasingly scarce slots

[DRG]

That said I may have just hit on a solution........more after testing and you can test too

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

That said I may have just hit on a solution........more after testing and you can test too

Oh?
It'd be nice to see gunships actually become useful.

If the initial testing looks promising I'd be more then happy to drop it into my "Walking Dead" scenario as that sort of mass assault would be just the Kind of thing a gunship crew would have wet dreams about.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

That said I may have just hit on a solution........more after testing and you can test too

Oh?
It'd be nice to see gunships actually become useful.

If the initial testing looks promising I'd be more then happy to drop it into my "Walking Dead" scenario as that sort of mass assault would be just the kind of thing a gunship crew would have wet dreams about.

[DRG]

Test failed.......it would not work across all unit types

[Suhiir]

'E' for effort Don!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I appreciate the effort here my thoughts are, in thinking outside of the box...

1) KISS A. Straight line of attack like normal Planes/Jets even to the extent of the player to pick entry/exit as it exists in the game. This will cause the player "to think" about the gunships orientation in regards to weapons on target. Have it come in the wrong direction with the guns on the wrong side of the target hex the gunship either aborts or we allow it to fire away either way you risk wasting the mission, getting shot down or if we let it shoot, possibly hitting other enemy units or your own (Think of this as receiving bad target coordinates or a breakdown in the chain of command - Afghanistan comes to mind as just recently within the last three weeks that hospital was hit. A few people don't have to worry about any further promotion/or retirement.) and...

B. The target area I think should be 7 hexes/350m long with the center hex being the "target" hex chosen by the player, this would be bordered on each side by one row of 6 hexes/300m. The plane should standoff from the target area grid edge by no less then about 6 hexes/300m this should allow for the newer "birds" to fire the VIPER STRIKE Top Attack ATGW and give if you will a sense of altitude. Understand due to the suggested target area entry and departure of the plane could be limited to straight cardinal headings in regards to the game map.

C. The older gunships might be firing in the "blind" within the target area but if units are hidden they should still obviously suffer suppression and casualties. The newer ones will see the targets on approach within the current parameters of the game (TI/GSR), if armed with "VIPER STRIKE" it should attack armored units as a Plane/Jet can. Machine, Gatling and 105mm guns would fire once the plane is flying parallel to the target area.

2) Keeping the elements of B and C above, have the gunship using only the top and or bottom corners of the map/monitor screen, flying in about a 15-20 arc from corner to corner on the attack run.

All weapons should be able to attack targets within the target area, or, at a minimum the ones in the "center" hex line while suppressing/or causing light damage to the targets on the "border" hex lines. Gunships should be limited to 2-4 turns and or passes with fully loaded weapons. The AC-47 carried 2000lbs or 1 ton of ammo onboard when it flew missions. Results of a well documented attack on an NVA company has been used by many sources and was included in the ref I used in my last post, and is re-posted below. Even the AC-47 in Vietnam was able to stay on station for 8 hours doing "lazy" circles waiting for the call. I believe that's why the KISS concept would work as I believe that I've read the operating attack radius was either 2.5 or 5 miles from the target area.

Yeah it's work and all I can do is provide raw data. I would love to see a solution, however, I would fully understand if one can't be found and we're back to my original question as posted above.

http://www.dc3history.org/aircraftmi...gicdragon.html

Well I'm beat, long night at the "office" so...well Good Morning!!

Regards,
Pat