Question: Op Fire Filters

[shahadi]

So, I opened Gran1pa's latest scenario, Red: Killing Grounds, and proceeded to set Op Fire filters as is my custom. In particular setting for MBTs and ATGM units, but I filtered infantry too, although most infantry units were in urban area.

To my shock, none of my MBTs or ATGMs responded with a shot. Within a short order, the Russian armor horde had breached my line of defense.

Disenchanted, I opened Editor and built a quick test composed of a UK MBT platoon, supported by two SP-ATGM units and a squad of infantry ATGM. Battle date: 06/1984, UK vs Russia. Did not the Soviet Union disintegrate in 1991 into the several republics with a reconstituted Russia? If so, the game should display the Soviet flag for the year 1984.

After five turns the Russians breached the ATGMs unscathed. The Armor engagement setting was 20 hex for both MBTs and ATGMs.

In the subsequent case, I lifted all Op Fire filters and the result was startling.

I would have expected similar results with the Op Fire settings on especially considering the Russian side was assaulting.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by shahadi

Disenchanted, I opened Editor and built a quick test composed of a UK MBT platoon, supported by two SP-ATGM units and a squad of infantry ATGM. Battle date: 06/1984, UK vs Russia. Did not the Soviet Union disintegrate in 1991 into the several republics with a reconstituted Russia? If so, the game should display the Soviet flag for the year 1984.>

I am only going to comment on this one aspect...Opfire filters are Andys area but the game DOES display the Soviet flag for the year 1984.....






and that's the way they are displayed in my test and your save so IDK what exactly you are suggesting is wrong in regards to flags


Don

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by DRG

I am only going to comment on this one aspect...Opfire filters are Andys area but the game DOES display the Soviet flag for the year 1984.....






and that's the way they are displayed in my test and your save so IDK what exactly you are suggesting is wrong in regards to flags


Don

As the young folk say, "My bad."

[RightDeve]

Regarding flags, the Russian or USSR flags are showing correctly on my machine.

But the Op Fire problem, it is confirmed, at least on my end here.

OpFire Filtered units won't fire at all, either outside or inside the set range (not the mere Y-range setting, but the real OpFire filter). This happens whether the overwatch hex is active or not. In my experiment, only the AFV Filter is turned ON, I don't know about other targets e.g Infantry. Once the Filter is removed, the units fire as normally (obviously without any filter now).

Maan, this is quite a problem Don. That's why I took the care to experiment it myself. I'm sorry I haven't played either games for quite some time now since the latest update, so I don't know of other bugs that may surface.

(speaking of filters, turns out my unfiltered kretek cigarettes have run out. i gotta go outside and buy some. anyone?)

[Mobhack]

I'll check the opfire filters later as I am out today, but the first question would be - what armour values are set? - if too high, then they wont fire e.g. if set at 99 steel, and the targets are 20 steel front.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

I'll check the opfire filters later as I am out today, but the first question would be - what armour values are set? - if too high, then they wont fire e.g. if set at 99 steel, and the targets are 20 steel front.

You may recall my thread on the Israeli assault boats, where a Milan III team shot a missile at first a rubber raft then an assault boat with armor rating at 1.

Here, in these series of tests, let me say I am a CD user, and I did not set any armor values whatsoever.

[Imp]

Been away for a week but my op filter worked perfectly

[RightDeve]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

I'll check the opfire filters later as I am out today, but the first question would be - what armour values are set? - if too high, then they wont fire e.g. if set at 99 steel, and the targets are 20 steel front.

It was only the "Armor Range" that I set, not Armor values. Set at 3 hexes.

Cheers!

UPDATE:
If I deliberately set the Armor Value, e.g Max at 87 and Min at 1 (or even at 0, so long as Max is defined), then OpFire Filter works perfectly as it should. Problem occurs only when you set the Armor Range, but leaves Armor Value at 0 (either deliberately or automatically let it at 0 unattended).

OpFire Filter's range against Infantry also works as it should, even if I don't set the Armor Values.

On a side note, the simple Y-key range filter works as it should (i.e you're not using the dedicated OpFire filter dialogue).

In conclusion, I believe this is not a problem, since one obviously should at least define BOTH the "Armor Range" and "Armor Value", to tell OpFire filter to work properly against armors (against infantry types it is normal all along as stated above).

UPDATE: When an AFV fires its main gun AGAINST an OpFire-Filtered target, this OpFire filter's max Range will be automatically changed to reach that firing unit. For example, an American M1A2 whose OpFire filter has been set as 3 hex, gets fired by a Russian T-90A using its main gun at a range of 10 hexes, the Abram's 3 hex limit will be automatically raised into 10 hex, to meet that Russian tank. If it's not a main gun that fires, the hex limit won't change, as it normally should.

In conclusion, I still think it's not a problem, as the M1A2 obviously needs to defend itself when under clear and present danger (Russian main gun), thus OpFire range is increased so it can have its own OpFire agains that T-90A.

[Mobhack]

DRG EDIT: I have made bold the very important issue of setting in and max armour values and made this a sticky for the next time this "issue" comes up.


The op-fire filter requires you to set min and max armour values - otherwise it has nothing to filer on. This is unlike the "Y" key function which is a range-only filter.

All filtering in the game gets switched off (set to range +1 of the firer IIRC for the plain Y function) when the unit gets fired upon by some enemy, in order to allow it to reply to the enemy unit with reverse opfire if it survived the shot. This is SP 101, and has been since SP1 (Or maybe 2?) - whenever the "Y" key feature arrived anyway.

It also applies in reverse if you manually fire at an enemy unit, so that it is able to fire on it without you having to set filters- otherwise the unit would refuse to fire, resulting in confused end users.

So you may need to reset filtering if those circumstances occur, and you wish the unit to revert to being "choosy" once more when the threat is dealt with.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

The op-fire filter requires you to set min and max armour values - otherwise it has nothing to filer on. This is unlike the "Y" key function which is a range-only filter.

All filtering in the game gets switched off (set to range +1 of the firer IIRC for the plain Y function) when the unit gets fired upon by some enemy, in order to allow it to reply to the enemy unit with reverse opfire if it survived the shot. This is SP 101, and has been since SP1 (Or maybe 2?) - whenever the "Y" key feature arrived anyway.

It also applies in reverse if you manually fire at an enemy unit, so that it is able to fire on it without you having to set filters- otherwise the unit would refuse to fire, resulting in confused end users.

So you may need to reset filtering if those circumstances occur, and you wish the unit to revert to being "choosy" once more when the threat is dealt with.

I follow you so far. But, I am telling you...I do not recall ever setting Armor values. But, then again, maybe I should tell the doc next time to check for some kinda dementia.

I remember we had this similar conversation with my Israeli Assault Boats issue. And, as suggested I set armor min/max values, but the Milan III team still let loose on an assault boat with only 1 armor rating.

I'll go over my settings in my ATGM test and report back.

Thanks