OT: Superman and Stemcells

[deccan]

Ahem, *cough*, let me duck beneath J.O. and Arryn and post in reply to this here:

Skolem said:
First, who say that the logical assumpitions we made are correct?

That's a valid line of philosophical inquiry and one could extend it in all sorts of weird directions, from Hume's skepticism of the validity of induction and the principle of causality to questions as to whether or not the axioms that comprise "classical" logic are in fact "true".

My own philosophical view dodges this problem by accepting that my personal motives / values etc. aren't in fact "logically justified", they simply "are". I wouldn't like to say that this is based on "faith". I regard them as not having a truth value at all.

From there, I can rationally proceed. How can I know that the law of induction is "true". I can't, but I can "know" that it has worked for me in the past (i.e. advanced my values / motives), and so I continue to employ it. Of course, past success does not logically guarantee future success, but what else do I have? Would it be more rational to not employ it?

How can I know that there is no "deceiving demon" constantly manipulating my sensory input and even memories "behind the scenes" of my consciousness? I cannot so far as the illusion is perfect. But if the illusion is perfect, then it is the "truth" as far as I am concerned.

The idea here is not to aim for a sort of "God's eye view" of the "truth", but for a personal, individual kind of truth. My contention is that this doesn't require the kind of "faith" that is commonly associated with religion.

As for mathematics, I think your comments are valid only if you have a view of mathematics, one not uncommon amongst mathematicians, that it has some sort of ideal existence independent of the physical universe. If you are willing to tie the existence of mathematics purely to a physical universe, then those problems ought to go away.

[Arryn]

Deccan, I just wanted to say that your grasp of philosophy is quite impressive, and your ability to express what you understand is even more so. Kudos. And after visiting your homepage just now I can see why.

Do you teach? If not, you should. I think you'd be very good at it.

[alexti]

Skolem said:
So you are saying you believe in something, who can prove , that it can't prove that it is correct. Well to believe in this (every mathematician does it), is for me the very same kind of faith act as to believe in a given religion, that is why so many Mathematician, and to a further extend Physician, believes in God (He has to make maths correct...!!!)
Skolem

That's not surprising. Most people can choose whether to believe in God or in science, considering that they have no means of validating (or even understanding either). Mathematician, physicist and other scientists often know enough of science to realize that they still need something to explain something unexplicable from the point of view of the science. Thus believe in God (often, rather abstract god, unlike ones in mainstream religions).

[Graeme Dice]

Arryn said:
Someone will jump into a thread in which they haven't been participating at all just to flame me (Truper's done this in two separate threads recently) and if I respond to his attack, an admin (like Tim) will chastise *me*.

What, you mean the "A Simple Thank You" thread where your Posts consisted of little more than a barrage of insults directed at anyone who disagreed with you? Why shouldn't you have been told off there?

[Arryn]

Graeme, to you, *anything* I say you'll construe as an "insult", since you're on record as stating that you hate my guts. You have zero credibility. You, just like Truper, only post in threads I post in so that you can flame me. You did it in that "thank you" thread, and you just did it again. I can tolerate that you don't agree with me, and that you hate me. But jumping into threads you're not otherwise participating in just to flame me without posting anything else of substance to the discussion in those threads goes well beyond the bounds of acceptable etiquette. If the Moderators were doing the job they used to do on this forum, they'd've taken action against you (and your friend Truper) by now.

At least Johan and I were having a discussion (and disagreement) before he decided to flame me. I give him that much credit. You jump into threads for no good reason at all, and contribute nothing positive. The words I could use to describe *your* behavior I won't inflict on the rest of the forum members. Use your imagination and pretend I've said whatever offends you the most. Then go back to lurking. If you have nothing useful and positive to contribute, do everyone a favor and don't post.

[Richard]

I am going to lock this down for now. It seems there is a misunderstanding of the policies of this forum, but that will be rectified. Over the weekend we will post the rules for the forum so everyone can be clear. We will also be working to nominate some new Moderators for this forum, since when you only have one active moderator anything he does as far as actions is going to seem personal and biased.

Let me be clear about one thing, public discussion about how a moderator is doing his/her job is not warranted. I will put in an official policy for how anyone can deal with what they feel is unfair attention from a Moderator/Admin. This will clear up any misunderstandings in how to escalate forum issues.

As far as Zen leaving, I won't completely speak for him, but I do know that it had to deal with being tired of being the only moderator without much backup dealing with a lot of recent issues on the board. Most of our communities are run well, with very little in the way of controversy, with the same rules we had intended to use here. The problem lies in that there is too much being asked of too few, not a real clear understanding of boundaries, and to be honest a lack of civility in the way some deal with others. I am frankly disheartened at the level of lack of respect that some show for others in their Posts. There is no problem with disagreeing, even with a moderator, but there has to be respect there in the post. Too often I see some disagreements devolving into petty arguments versus people disagreeing, but seeing that their opponent has a right to hold their opinion.

So expect some more on this, this weekend. If you have interested in being a Moderator please PM Mindi or myself, and we consider it. Please give us past experience, your opinions on how to run a forum, and other items you feel speak to your ability to affect this community in a positive manner.

If you have any questions on this please email me at richard@shrapnelgames.com.

Thanks.

P.S. Please no more name calling in this thread or others. There are multiple people guilty of that right now. Keep it to PM's or email, but keep it off of the Boards.

[Kristoffer O]

Please !