Fyron's 5000th Post - Page 10

narf poit chez BOOM · #91 April 15th, 2003, 11:02 PM

it's an anti-matter device that never lets any clock run and always gives incorrect time.
unless you want the oposite of a single clock, in which case it only has to never let that clock run.
and for most of this, theoretical is as good as were gonna get.

[ April 15, 2003, 22:05: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

geoschmo · #92 April 15th, 2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
it's an anti-matter device that never lets any clock run and always gives incorrect time.
unless you want the oposite of a single clock, in which case it only has to never let that clock run.
and for most of this, theoretical is as good as were gonna get.

I can stop a single clock from ever running by the simple and forceful application of a ball peen hammer. But that does not make my hammer the opposite of a clock.

narf poit chez BOOM · #93 April 15th, 2003, 11:28 PM

what does that have to do with what i said?
i'll be playing the non-existant seIV now.

[ April 15, 2003, 22:29: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Cyrien · #94 April 16th, 2003, 12:14 AM

All the arguments have so far had many holes in them and the fact that opposing arguments have holes in them does nothing to fill the holes up in either of them. Just because my sinking ship has more holes in it than your sinking ship (which it does not) does nothing to stop your ship from sinking.

I never once claimed that everything has an opposite.

Proving some is theoretically possible is in fact logically valid. Proving something theoretically possible does not prove it does exist but it shows that it MIGHT exist. I have in fact not shown that it can exist but that it might.
But my entire point in my Posts has not been to prove that it does exist but to attempt to show a method in which one might be able to identify the opposite of clock should it exist.

In point of fact opposites are not necessarily unique.

A is the opposite of B

C is the opposite of D

E is both B and D and thus the opposite of both A and C.

It is a matter of how you group things. A smaller group may be contained by a larger group. Just because it is the opposite of more than the smaller group does not make it any less the opposite of the smaller group.

You can isolate all the traits of the thing and while the smaller grouping is not the opposite of the larger the larger meets all requirements for being the other. Thus you could have the opposite of grandfather clock and clock and the opposite of clock INCLUDES grandfather clock.

My conclusions have been it is not even possible to identify the opposite of clock as the identification of clock itself is impossible.

If you can't identify the components of the thing you need to identify the opposite of then you have no chance of ever identifing the opposite itself.

Thus as things get more and more complex it gets harder and harder to define the thing and thus harder and harder to define an opposite. Thus the only things we have opposite for are indeed simple things. This does not however preclude the existence of the opposites themselves. It just means we have no way of identifing them and thus no way of proving or disproving their existence. Leaving us in limbo.

Cyrien · #95 April 16th, 2003, 12:25 AM

And to answer the question. Opposite my clock is my bed.

David E. Gervais · #96 April 16th, 2003, 12:30 AM

Ok, so my logic was flawed and full of holes. I'm not Vulcan, but I'll give it another try...

You are trying to find out what is the 'opposite' of a clock, and by definition the 'opposite' of a clock cannot itself be a clock.

Well, I am not a clock, and therefore must be it's opposite!

So the answer to the question "What is the opposite of a clock?" is Me!

Jack Simth · #97 April 16th, 2003, 12:57 AM

If you apply set notation and treat opposite as complement, then the opposite of a clock would be the set of (all objects union all non-objects) which are not in the set of (all clocks).

Fyron · #98 April 16th, 2003, 01:06 AM

David:
I am not trying to find the opposite of a clock because such a thing does not exist. I was saying that most everything that exists in reality has no opposite. The clock was just one example.

Jack:

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
If you apply set notation and treat opposite as complement, then the opposite of a clock would be the set of (all objects union all non-objects) which are not in the set of (all clocks).

How did discrete mathematics wind up in this? It doesn't apply! We were talking about a clock, not a set that contains a clock. A clock is not a set, so set notation can not be applied to a clock itself.

[ April 16, 2003, 00:08: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]