(OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Taera:
[QB]i dont know if anyone realy cares... QB]

Taera, you may want to take a look at this area.

It has to do with a sense of self-worth.

Some of us get our sense of self-worth from others. If they like us or if they care then we are worthy, of value and deserve to be liked/loved.

In such a case, we are dependent upon others for our sense of worth and well-being.

You may also wish to examine your definition of "caring".

Please do not take the following examples as an attempt to fit you into one of them. They are given by way of explanation only. I often get into trouble when I give examples and they are taken personally.

Some people define it as "listening when I am in real trouble". By this definition, we will find someone who will listen and feel that people care.

If we define it as "listening to me ad nausia", well, there are fewer people willing to do this.

If we define it as "listening to me on demand whenever I want it and have to listen it to ad nausia", we would be very fortunate to find such a person.

And we are in real trouble if we expect most or all people to exhibit the level of care we want.

But it may not be listening at all. It may be something else which you feel falls short of the standard of caring which is expected.

Whatever the standard, it does need to be examined if you feel uncared.

On a somewhat similiar vein, but taking it from the perspective of the care-giver, some of us buy the care we want. So we shower the person with gifts, take them to restaurants etc.

Both parties need to examine the basis of their sense of worth/value.

I saw a poster once. "God loves me because he don't make no junk!"

If we can accept that we are worthy and loveable for all our warts, mistakes, errors and indiscretions, then we will have a sense of worth that transcends all that happens around us.

And this applies to criminals who by societal standards make the most serious mistakes.

Some people go though their whole life without examining this question. Those who do, often find it is a lifetime journey.

[Erax]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
It can also be regrettibly said that man invented religion as a means to control [...]
I know that God has not foresaken me because of this. And how dare some one ever emply that he has.

I'm sure this wasn't aimed at me directly. For the record, my views are similar to yours. But I decided I would study religious doctrine so I wouldn't be caught by surprise in certain situations.

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
If an atheist experienced what I did this weekend, s/he would be going to church this week.

Some people may have a belief in God, but not in religion, are they considered atheist? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I would like to.

I hope that what you experienced was good rather than bad, Atrocities. Both types of events can lead one to seek God, but it often seems that troublesome events are more likely to get us searching for something more than ourselves.

As for your question about atheism, a person who believes in God would not be an atheist. In fact that person would not really be agnostic, since agnostic (Greek - "without knowledge") refers to a person who is not sure whether God exists or not.

A deeper question is, what do you do with your belief? I totally agree with you in one of your other Posts that God does not foresake you because you do not believe in religion. I do believe that the main reason we are on this earth is to have a relationship with God. I also believe that I am unable to have that relationship in my own strength, because I am imperfect, but I believe that God has provided a way for me to have a relationship with Him in His strength. Yet believing in something, but not acting on that belief is almost like not believing in it.

Rather than post again about my views of Christianity, with which many who read these threads are no doubt familiar, I would encourage you to honestly ask Him what His will for you is. You know He is with you, and you know He is taking care of you, so trust as well for Him to reveal to you what the next step in your relationship should be.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

religon's of all types have been used by corrupt people. that is why one must have a personal relationship with god. to simply condemn all religons for the corruptions of a few people is a mistake.

[ June 03, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
religon's of all types have been used by corrupt people.

A more general Version of that statement is also true: Orginizations of all types have been used by corrupt people to do evil things.

[Taera]

tbonbop, a small confession here, there were only two people who i'd talk to about my problems, and when they were there i didnt have problems to talk about. those two are left in israel. there is no person right now i'd talk to about my problems, each one having a different reason for me not wanting to.

i have posted it here simple because i have spent a lot of time around the people here, as well as i do believe you to be adult people. (and my belief here was justified)

self esteem... i have problems there im trying to solve now.
what yes, one of my... questions? ... is that i dont want to receive pity. sincere or not, pity is pity... feels and sounds wrong.

regarding this particular post, i saw what i wrote - "dont know if anyone cares". in this context though it was more along the lines of the fact that it is a self-discovery i made that i dont know if anyone is interested in knowing. i still posted it here, to kind-of summarize my previous line of thinking and show you, all of you, that you had helped me at least to understand this.

and i want to respond to the thread of religion. this is a much-debated over topic. i, with my sometimes bitter and critical point of view, and i will disagree with you all. religion is a way to a neverending question of humankind, and soul problems. dont tell me im blaspheming in next sentence. god may exist and may not (my beliefs tend to be towards the former) but the belief had not once given people an answer, a solution or a new life. i speak from a non-worshipper point of view, religion is an incredible invention of humankind that had not once united differnt people, helped persons and Groups and nations to survive or to find an answer.
All you can blame on religion is ultimately the fault of the man. as such you can also say biology is the worst invention of the human race - it is the ultimate killer against which there is no escape whatsoever. a recovering patient would not agree with you.

religion is an answer, not means for anything. some people though take beliefs too far, and it is a common humanly trait. and there are always those willing to use the opportunity. when religion becomes fanatiscism it is not religion. it is fanatiscism. hence the different word. and you cannot confuse or even connect the two.

[tbontob]

Yes and the early Christian church was no exception.

It is a little known fact that when Constantine made Christianity the state religion in the 4th century, the Christians turned around and started to persecute the Nestorians.

Until then, the Nestorians were a legitimate sect of Christianity believing that Jesus was totally human. This changed with the Council of Nicia where the Nician Creed was passed which states that Jesus is both totally human and totally divine.

The Nestorians were an Eastern sect and the persecution went on for centuries. Some scholars believe that they were eventually absorbed into the Muslim faith which believes Jesus is a prophet but not divine.

Many of us think of Christianity as a bush growing out of one central source. Scholars now tend to view Christianity as a hourglass with an early explosion of different forms of Christianity followed by a restriction and then expanding again with Protestantism.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

taera, without the answers and support my religon gives me, i would be in worse shape, even if i beleived in god. i could find out answers to my problems with my own faith in god, but i wouldn't be prepared with them beforehand. and i believe if all people truly loved and cared for each other, our problems would disapear fast. case in point: do you rob or kill someone you love? no. so there's war and theft gone right there. and my religon helps me a lot with that.

[tbontob]

Taera, I hear you.

Pity has a connotation of condescension. That the person is not quite right. That he is defective in some way.

But none of us are perfect beings. And if one of us were perfect, what is he doing here?

My feeling is we are on this earth to learn something. What each of us need to learn is different for each individual.

I also believe we visit this realm numerous times. Sometimes as a male and sometimes as a female. I may be Jewish in one life, Christian in another and an agnostic in the third. Or something else.

Is it true? I don't know. I certainly cannot prove it. But to my mind it is just as valid as the Christian belief that we have one life and either end up in Hell or sitting on the right hand of God himself. For Christians cannot prove the validity of that belief however much they may point to the Bible.

If you have taken philosophy, you know you can neither prove the existance of God or disprove his existance. So it all comes down to faith.

People often ask me if I am religious. My answer is no as I do not adhere to any religion. I feel all religions have something to teach us.

But I do believe in God/higher power/greater being etc. I believe in the brotherhood of man. And one of the many lessons we need to learn is how to be compassionate to others who have fallen upon hard times.

Still wanting to put me into some sort of Category, they ask or state "You are spiritual". I answer "Yes", but that does not in any way make me special for I believe we are all spiritual beings temporarily cloathed in flesh.

And I hear you about fanaticism. At the risk of offending Christians, I belief Christ was able to convey only a little of what he knew/discovered. Like a child who could not understand Calculus if we tried to explain it to him, we are like children with the mysteries of the universe.

So you are wise to be skeptical of fanaticism. It can be a trap, since fanaticism implies an intolerance of other beliefs.

But lot of people are drawn to it as it overlays the uncertainties we feel in life and can give a feeling of security in an insecure world.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Chief Engineer Erax:

quote:

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Originally posted by Atrocities:
It can also be regrettibly said that man invented religion as a means to control [...]
I know that God has not foresaken me because of this. And how dare some one ever emply that he has.

I'm sure this wasn't aimed at me directly. For the record, my views are similar to yours. But I decided I would study religious doctrine so I wouldn't be caught by surprise in certain situations.

---

Oh dude, no, my comment was in no way directed at you or any member of this forum. Please forgive the generalization of my post. Chief Engineer Erax I honestly am sorry if I made you think that my post was directed at you. It was not directed at any one.