Off topic: How are games failing you?

[Aezeal]

hmmm I can find a decent amount of books I like , I do't mind rereading books either so that solves the problem too.

I agree fallout 3 is better than Oblivion but I disagree giving all those abuses as examples why it's bad.

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Not to put anyones back up, but I don't really think Dominions attracts a lot of people who are good at multitasking on the fly. One advantage of turn based games is the ability to think everything through and go at your own pace. You try that in an RTS and you will get destroyed. Tunnel vision is your enemy. On the flipside, an RTS is so focused on the here and now that its easy to forget your overall strategy, or to consider strategic choices.

I don't think so.
In a good turn based game you can't afford tunnel vision, you have to keep in mind how your action here affects your action there and have a global strategy.
Multitasking in RTS is basically doing a thing extremely fast and then doing other things fast and then switch back to the thing you started from. That really makes the strategy component of the RTS quite secondary especially as most tactics are quite obvious (rockets against tanks, pikes against cavalry).

About most RPGs I dislike that they are so combat focused. Yeah, sometimes there are other ways to solve quests, but the systems behind that are neglected. Dialog is represented by a minor game, stealth sucks, etc. A combatant character will also often have an advantage over a noncombatant be it through xp or loot.

[Trumanator]

^ Well I really meant the ability you have in turn based games to focus exclusively on each thing at a time. You aren't in a rush, so you can make sure its perfect.

[Aezeal]

Well the problem with dialog RPG's is that they would be nearly exactly the same each playthrough which combat can be different. In the end there will always be a limit on how much lines there can be while combat is fluent and changing. Not to mention that it's just not realistic to ab able to talk most monsters you encounter to kill you.

"Hey huge brown bear/ demon that wants to take over the world/ evil witch that wants to kill the king for slights in the past with clearly murderous intent and teeth the size (the witch too) of daggers would you be so kind as to move away"..insert some witty comments, some pleading, some intelligent remarks, talk of understanding, some love songs etc etc some of the other rpg styles of talk you can imaging (including bribing: "you know if I give you this goldpiece will you then stop your almost finish plan to take over the world and destroy it this afternoon?"

doesn't work for me and since my aim in RPG's are usually epic of nature upto and including saving the world the stakes for me and my opponents are very high so a lone talker standing between them and eteral glory won't stop them (or me )

[Endoperez]

Fighting is one solution. If you aren't a great fighter, obviously it will be much harder to defeat the big bad in a straight fight. That's why you have to even the odds. As an example, your mission might be to stall while the rest of your party does some sabotage - suddenly talking is a really good option. Who said Charisma is useless?
In addition, the plans of those megalomaniacal final bosses usually have huge holes in them. There are classics (Fallout, Planescape: Torment) in which you can discover why the big bad's plans' won't work, and TELL HIM THAT. Even if it doesn't cause him to kill himself or give up, it could make the final fight much easier, or give you a "you sacrificed yourself, but you saved the world" ending.
Not to mention the possibility of talking the second-in-command to fight for you. Star Wars, anyone?

You could also play the sneaky rogue who discovers the way to defeat the big monster, in-game and in-character. "Hey Bard, see that missing scale in the belly of the dragon? Use the magic arrow!" Why yes, stealth sure came in handy in here! Not to mention another staple, "destroy the One Ring". Or old literary classics such as "we'll cause a prison break and use the confusion to our advantage".

And then there's the whole exploration aspect: the legend about the magical sword that will make you immune to the magic of the Evil Mage, hidden away somewhere far away. Following the long line of sub-quests would give you a sword that will give you a chance you wouldn't normally have. Of course, finding the sword should be difficult and require non-combat skills, (with different quests and rewards available for the combat-focused characters, of course).


It's only worth the developers' effort to make special cases for the important enemies - but they are the only important enemies. As long as killing monsters isn't your only way of gathering experience, it's at least theoretically possible to make non-combat skills useful in the boss fights.

[Tifone]

And that's why the RPGs where you have multiple ways to do things (i.e. Fallout: you can destroy the door if you are strong enough, or pick its lock if you have the skill, or melt it if you have acid, or convince the guard to give you the key if you have Charisma)... are the best ones

[Gregstrom]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

The first was that there was no "Attack To" command (like Dune: Battle for Emperor, what were they thinking??)

We were dealing with all sorts of 'interesting' requirements for the UI from EA and Westwood.

[llamabeast]

Were you on the development team Gregstrom?

[Gregstrom]

Indeed. I was one of the designers (for my sins).

[JimMorrison]

Battle for Emperor was sooooo -almost- awesome..... It had the atmosphere (got to love a cherished IP to work with, AND a strong legacy), and for the time, cutting edge visuals for an RTS. As far as I'm concerned, the UI was really the only thing standing in my way of joygasm.


Aezeal - that's why there really are 2 broad classes of RPG, "Action Driven", and "Story Driven". Diablo was so successful I think, because it's got a great hack-and-slash-Action-Driven-RPG package, with enough story to keep you a little immersed. Likewise, Fallout ranks as the king of Story Driven RPG, for the simple fact that even as turn based, the action is gritty and exciting, and no aspect of the game is less than mediocre.

Have you ever played Dreamfall: The Longest Journey? It's so Story Driven, I call it an Interactive Novel..... the "action" is almost non-existent, you don't have a character sheet with stats or attributes, the "game" itself is highly stripped down in many ways. But the story, my god the story is intense and riveting. Most games I am upset if there is no replay value, this was one where I felt like I had gotten my full value for one playthrough - and I didn't want to play again anyways, as it had such a cathartic climax. I see some used copies on Amazon for ~$10, I would highly recommend it at this price - IF you can appreciate a well orchestrated story.