No more MP for Hinnom? - Page 10

HoneyBadger · #91 October 2nd, 2008, 06:10 PM

I just find early rushes with Niefelheim awfully risky, when you can just wait a little bit, and have an army that's twice as hard to take down. Against Lanka, it might be worth the payoff, since Lanka can be a real threat, at the same time Niefelheim is. And Lanka probably can't *take* an early rush quite as well as Niefelheim can-their PD's only a little better, and their troops are still expensive, and not as good in small numbers.

NTJedi · #92 October 3rd, 2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

Hinnom will likely be nerfed with next patch.

Hopefully there's plans for creating a nation which is extremely powerful. Currently any veterans playing SP games on large maps need to severely boost one or more advantages for the AI opponents if looking for a challenge. It'd save time and be fun to play a random map without using tools, modding or map edit commands to receive a strong AI opponent for middle and late game.

It would be nice to have one very powerful nation designed to provide a challenging AI opponent during middle and late game. The current strongest AI opponent during middle game is LA Ermor and the current strongest AI opponent during late game is EA Niefielheim.

I see no problems having one nation banned out of the other 20 which are available.

Sombre · #93 October 3rd, 2008, 02:44 AM

Of course the AI is crap with Hinnom. Just can't use them.

Tifone · #94 October 3rd, 2008, 03:43 AM

Actually I think it can, of course not like a player but it doesn't suck though. In all my solo games it is just after me in the graphs. If I started slowly, it can even be above. Anyway, around double the scores of every other EA nations in all the games I put them in - in everything except research (I think it can't use the advantage of having recruitable mages in every fort even without a lab).

Sombre · #95 October 3rd, 2008, 03:51 AM

Really? In the couple of SP games I played they got a few provinces and then got stuck on that amount for 20+ turns. Definitely lower on the graphs than other races, especially fomoria.

That might have just been their scales or something though I guess.

NTJedi · #96 October 3rd, 2008, 04:41 AM

Scales play a huge role on how powerful an AI nation becomes during a game. With a good starting position and good scales an average AI opponent can win and feed on neighboring impossible AIs.
Give an AI opponent 3 order, 1 productivity, 3 growth, 3 luck, and 3 magic and then it really thrives.

HoneyBadger · #97 October 3rd, 2008, 05:08 AM

I always designed my AI Nations from the ground up, before I played against them in SP. And if it was going to be a lengthy 1500 Province game, I'd actually play them myself, through the first year or so. It makes for a vast difference in their ability to offer a challenge, and my memory of where they actually *are* on a 1500 Province map is vague enough (and dissipates quickly enough) that it really doesn't offer me that much of an advantage.

Usually, the biggest problem was just giving them up to the AI after I've put so much work into them, especially if they were doing well...It's a great way to learn all the different Nations, though, and really does offer the best AI experience possible.

Humakty · #98 October 3rd, 2008, 06:17 AM

I only play SP, but I must say that with Hinnom I literaly don't know with what to wack the AI. The fact Hinnom has powerfull endgame summons is a joke, as you will have walked all other the AI with your base troops and recruitable everywhere mages. Really, even their sacreds and capitol only mages are unecessary.
Ashdod is less uber, mainly because they have supply problems.

Tifone · #99 October 3rd, 2008, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

It all goes back to Early game power, and Late game power. If a Nation is very powerful in the Early phase of the game, then it's justifiable that a couple other Nations might have to team them up to bring them down. But there should be a trade-off. Nations who start small should finish large, they should eventually "come into their own".

Heartily agree. I'd add even the Mid-game power into he sum (which doesn't also always translate in late game power), which some nations already make their strong point.

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Maybe another thing that could help balancing Hinnom and be thematic at the same time, would be if the civilians of the lands where Hinnom armies go, aren't exactly happy of being eaten alive just for fun by the invaders (in game mechanics = if Hinnom soldiers/commanders with the pop-eating feature have the unrest-increasing one as well).
The amount of micromanaging required to keep the loss of gold and further population at bay, could make playing Hinnom a bit more of a challenge and somewhat "justify" its high power...
The AI, on the other side, would never be able to manage this and would be probably screwed ^_^

Epaminondas · #**100** October 3rd, 2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sombre

Really? In the couple of SP games I played they got a few provinces and then got stuck on that amount for 20+ turns. Definitely lower on the graphs than other races, especially fomoria.

That might have just been their scales or something though I guess.

Hinnom has sucked every time they were AI in my SP games. I suppose that's why I fail to comprehend the "Hinnom is over-powered" mantra.