Mod: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

I suppose. I was under the impression that they get hoof attack on land. Impact weapons would likely suck underwater so I can sort of understand why they don't have it.

I guess the question boils down to if they need it. I was under the impression that ichtycentaurs are good troops. Sure, they have trouble dealing damage, but they shouldn't be perfect. MA Oceanian's problem is not in its troops, but it's mages.

Right now they don't get hoof attacks on land. You have a point, though, that ichtycentaurs are already the best thing going for Oceania troop-wise, and boosting them might only decrease diversity. Trident Knights definitely should get the 2nd attack, at least. Maybe then they could kill something before fatiguing out.

As I understand it, MA Oceania suffers from having no real way to deal damage without mage support(minus the first strike on ichtycentaurs), and their mages have terrible, terrible paths for dealing damage(max 2W4N1E1A pre-booster? You can't do anything with that).

[Tollund]

Well you can cast bone melter, but that's about it otherwise.

[Sombre]

I support extra hoof attacks on land. It makes sense.

The real issue with MA Oceania will always remain their horrible mages (on land).

[kianduatha]

The most subtle fix to Capricorns that I can think of is giving them linked randoms. This would flat out make the 10% randoms amazing. 1 in 10 Capricorns is either 2A, 2E(so really 3E), 4W(where W starts to get fun), or 5N(boosterless Mother Oak). Maybe boost it to a 15% random, too--but either way, you would get actual non-useless mages at least some of the time.

Also, even with a hoof attack Trident Knights probably need another point of attack skill.

[Sombre]

Yeah but you can't mod linked randoms.

[kianduatha]

Ugh. Right. I should've known that. Unfortunately, you'd need to bump the second random up to about 50% to get the same effectiveness(1 in 10 Capricorns actually being useful for something)

[Burnsaber]

In UWGIM, Oceania has the "Call Selkie" (A3W2N1 seducing mage) spell in conj4 and recruitable Daughter of Selkie 1A1W (110% A/E/W/N) random mage in coastal forts.

I think that should help in the magic department. I'll give ichtycentaurs hoof atttack on land in the next version.

[Squirrelloid]

I think part of the problem is all these E1 randoms don't translate into enough E to do anything useful - like make boots and therefore hammers!

[kianduatha]

So after finishing a MP game as EA Atlantis with this mod, I can't help but feel like I'm playing a completely different game than even CBM.

-Ride the Currents is amazing and makes you incredibly versatile as far as quickly organizing raids to entire coastlines. I could leave my Basalt Kings in my capital until I needed them, then zoom them out to deal with threats as they come. Think of yourself as coastal Eriu, but with a decent lategame.

-I spent a good chunk of water gems to make water-breathing items, oddly enough. If there was one thing to make underwater nations less obnoxious to play, it'd be giving them national mages(Mage of the Deep, mermage, slave mage) who can grant waterbreathing to troops.

-Coral Tribe Warriors are bogusly powerful. They give you the ability to simply crush R'lyeh because of their high base MR, Defense and repel(plus poison if they ever do land a hit). They even are fairly high damage(15 w/ poison). Especially in EA these guys can go toe-to-toe with almost any land nation. It was like having recruit-anywhere Assartuts, honestly. No bless and lower base damage, but they have a shield.

-Coral Tribe Shamans are amazing. I had twice as many of these guys as any other type of mage, and they let me shoot up the research ladder altogether faster than Atlantis has the right to. It really changed the nature of the game, though, as I actually ended up Astral and Nature heavy in the end. I was actually based off of my coastal forts, and my Basalt Kings were there just for support. I only created a few Mages of the Deep because I needed a token W4 guy to cast Maelstrom and Water Queens. This had the odd effect that I was a nature-heavy nation(Mmm, dragon master-ed Frost Drakes).

So basically my main force was from coastal forts and exclusively the Shamans and Coral Tribe Warriors, with Basalt Kings/Queens for supplementary raiding. If anything I had stronger infantry than most EA nations. The poison also basically makes you exceptionally dangerous to cavalry. Tir Na Nog for instance lost several Sidhe Lords by forgetting to script Resist Poison.

Methinks the Coral Tribe needs to be toned down some--as it is they become your military and magical backbone. I kept on trying to thug out my Basalt Kings, only to realize that they were better spent casting Legions of Steel, Strength of Giants and Quickening on these monsters. Suddenly they're 14 hp, 15 prot, 17 str, 15 att, 16 def murder machines(and that's before the 2-3 stars these guys usually get). Slap on Army of Lead(something you can easily 1st-round) and they're also 17 MR.

[Squirrelloid]

Now I'm really sad the one game I played with UWGIM EA Atlantis involved a map in which getting onto land was virtually impossible for a water nation. (That and having to fight EA Oceania tooth and claw almost all game to stay alive, so resources to dedicate to landward expansion were non-existent).

They may seem like monsters (and they do seem perhaps a little much), but considering what troop and buffing options other nations have... it may be more that Atlantis's other troops are just so far below decent that these things really shined in comparison. Are they really better than buffed Ermorian principes?