OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.(Edited2)

[NullAshton]

Okay, I almost got the basis for a first session of D&D. Plotline, baddies, how all of you people ended up on the same place... I think I'm going to go with level 5 on this one, with 4 party members(at first), a villian, and a couple of encounters to boot. Maybe even TREASURE!

EDIT: Yup, treasure, that's finished too.

[douglas]

Violist said:
While we were on the subject of crafting spells, what does the almighty GM think of the following?

Elemental Blast
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell functions like Fireball , with every creature in the area of effect taking 1d6 points of random damage (acid, electricity, fire, sonic) per caster level (15d6 max).

Material component:
A small glass prism worth 15 gp that is consumed in the casting.

How reasonable is that for a level 5 spell? perhaps more of an MC cost?

You forgot one type of elemental damage - cold.

This is the same level as Cone of Cold and has the same damage dice cap so that part isn't a problem. I think the 60 ft cone originating at caster vs 20 ft radius spread at medium range is a fairly even tradeoff of some area for range; in fact, judging by fireball, it should be long range (400 + 40/level).

The random damage type shouldn't be worth a level adjustment, I think, because it's not under the caster's control. The only thing that would need compensation for is the inclusion of sonic damage in the possibilities. Change the possible damage types to fire, cold, acid, and electricity, but not sonic, and it should be fine without the expensive MC.

NullAshton said:
It wouldn't be subject to Dispel Magic if the potion was a potion of permanency, since the caster and the target are both yourself for potions, and therefore you would be casting it at yourself and not make the effect suspectable to dispel magic any more. Greater magic fang can still be cast by someone else, however.

Potions are limited to 3rd level spells or lower. You'd have to get a scroll of Permanency and cast it with Use Magic Device. Also, the immunity to dispelling only applies to casters that aren't higher level than the caster level of Permanency, so you'd have to pay extra to get a high caster level. To get it undispellable by non-epic casters, the scroll would cost 5 (spell level) * 20 (caster level) * 25 (scroll) + 1500 (xp) * 5 (xp to gp converstion) = 10000 gp. To cast from the scroll, you would need to make a DC 40 UMD check, and another check at DC 30 for emulating the ability score if you don't have at least 15 intelligence or charisma, whichever is relevant.

[NullAshton]

Maybe a d6 roll, with the 6th die roll affecting that creature twice with two different types of energy? Same damage, just that half of it is one element and the other half is the other element.

And I got traps, yay. You can start the character generation now, 3.5 SRD rules, without any of the 'splat' books. Those books with the additional material seem to tend to be unbalanced, and allow you to powergame too much.

EDIT: Hehe, forgot the rules. 32 point buy, level 5, you can use psionics if you want...

[Violist]

So... long range instead of medium, cold instead of sonic, cone instead of spread, and no MC? That sounds good - I was trying to ensure that it stays at level 5.

/me goes to write that down

Also, if we're going for a scroll of permanency, why don't I learn the spell and cast? I don't mind paying the XP, and I'd like to at least give myself permanent See Invisibility.

NullAshton: Is grey-elf OK as a race? They're my favorite

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
While we were on the subject of crafting spells, what does the almighty GM think of the following?

Elemental Blast
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell functions like Fireball , with every creature in the area of effect taking 1d6 points of random damage (acid, electricity, fire, sonic) per caster level (15d6 max).

Material component:
A small glass prism worth 15 gp that is consumed in the casting.

How reasonable is that for a level 5 spell? perhaps more of an MC cost?

Personally? That it's pushing the bounds of a 5th level spell, but works, as posted above.

Why? Very few direct-damage spells, barring those of a high level (Prismatic Spray, 7th), or those that are severely weakened (Shadow Evocation, 5th, extra save for a fairly extreme partial; or Ice Storm, 4th, with 3d6 bludgeoning (elemental resistance doesn't help with that) and 2d6 Cold - doesn't scale with level) have the potential to still be quite useful when used against a creature that is exceptionally inappropriet due to an elemental immunity (e.g., Fireball vs. Red Dragon, Lightning Bolt against Blue Dragon). This one does, and there isn't anything severely crippled about the spell (like Shadow Evocation's extra save, or Ice Storm's flat damage amount at about half what a minimum caster for the spell would do with a Fireball).

[Violist]

That's a good point... now you guys have to help me here, is the GM Narf, douglas, or Jack? I keep getting you three confused.

Anyways, whichever one of you is the GM, determine what's reasonable please

[Jack Simth]

Yeah, I have a slight habit of doing that with the characters....

I GM the currently ECL 14 game (which, researching a 5th level spell, is likely the one you care aout....), Narf GM's the currently CL 3 game (on hold in the middle of a fight....), and Douglas is thinking about running a 5th level game (not started, but apparently mostly set up to run).

However, Medium range, VSM, 15 gp MC, randomly one of four or five elements, 20-foot spread, Reflex half and SR works. Starting to push the bounds, but it works.

Why? Well, it has inherent drawbacks ... you can't prep your allies for it with such spells as Resist Energy or Protection from Energy as you could with Fireball or Lightning Bolt; it does have an extra save (sort of) for any creature with some kind of elemental immunity (1 in 6 chance of no damage to a Red Dragon, for instance), as well as having the inherent drawback to most area-effect spells: can't really use it much after your allies have mixed it up with your opponents. Now, if the element was chosen, those would not apply, as you could prep allies or be sure of dealing something to the Red Dragon - but that's not the case here, so it works.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Wasn't it Ashton who wanted to GM something new?

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Douglas is thinking about running a 5th level game (not started, but apparently mostly set up to run).

That's Ashton, not me.

Jack Simth said:
However, Medium range, VSM, 15 gp MC, randomly one of four or five elements, 20-foot spread, Reflex half and SR works. Starting to push the bounds, but it works.

Why? Well, it has inherent drawbacks ... you can't prep your allies for it with such spells as Resist Energy or Protection from Energy as you could with Fireball or Lightning Bolt; it does have an extra save (sort of) for any creature with some kind of elemental immunity (1 in 6 chance of no damage to a Red Dragon, for instance), as well as having the inherent drawback to most area-effect spells: can't really use it much after your allies have mixed it up with your opponents. Now, if the element was chosen, those would not apply, as you could prep allies or be sure of dealing something to the Red Dragon - but that's not the case here, so it works.

Take out the randomness of the damage type and the expensive MC, and it is almost exactly on par with Cone of Cold. I don't think making the damage type random is worth any adjustment at all, as long as sonic is left out of the lineup. Either the damage type doesn't matter, or you're giving up the certainty of getting maximum effect against foes with known vulnerabilities in exchange for having a chance of it working well against anything.

[Violist]

douglas said:Take out the randomness of the damage type and the expensive MC, and it is almost exactly on par with Cone of Cold. I don't think making the damage type random is worth any adjustment at all, as long as sonic is left out of the lineup. Either the damage type doesn't matter, or you're giving up the certainty of getting maximum effect against foes with known vulnerabilities in exchange for having a chance of it working well against anything.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. And I prefer the 1d4 idea:
1 - Fire
2 - Electricity
3 - Cold
4 - Acid

But a 1d6 with perhaps a two-effect on a 6 would be interesting, although that'd push a level 5 spell by a bit.