Mod: Epic Heroes Mod -Version 1.5 Released

[Edi]

If the Oceanian hero is average, is that from the point of view of using it as a supercombatant? It was hardly intended to be that, but a mage. It provides Oceania with access to magic it would not otherwise get, though I suppose increasing the magic levels by 1 would make it more impressive.

I had no time to go through the Worthy Heroes mod or look at the other stuff in Epic Heroes, so I threw it together quickly and it could be below average for this mod. If it's underpowered compared to what the benchmark should be, it is no big deal to increase the stats. I was looking more at the thematics and story, which is the hardest thing to do well when designing a hero. Stas are always easy to adjust.

[Xietor]

Well,

What ctis summons is pretty darn powerful, so they do not come often. same with marignon. To test what they get, start with a dom 10 awake pretender, make a prophet and keep clicking that turn button.

If ctis got many of those things, it would be too overpowering, so they come rarely and only in strong dom.

Make sure you read the descr. Most of the work has been on the descr, as edi said. Ryleh summons zip. he is powerful as he is. Atlantis has a summon though.

[jutetrea]

Edi, average only in the sense that he reminds me of the Atlantean hero who I've only seen once or twice. Its almost like Atlantis stole a Ry'leh standard hero and Oce stole an atlantean standard hero. Not bad because they introduce unavailable paths.

Well, in comparison with some of the heroes he seems good but in comparison with the melee heroes he seems less exciting. Remember, this is without playtesting yet, but maybe an ability or as you said jack the paths by 1.

I'll be able to test a bit today, it seems like the melee heroes are a bit more exciting, more risk (how much would it suck to get them killed early), cooler abilities, and better stats. On the other hand I think the mage heroes will be all around more useful, especially the ones that introduce new paths.

Still confused on the tithe collectors summons. Place up front and let them get hit? defense and no offense? If so, (a bit harder to test, means i'd have to actually invade myself) it might be pretty cool. Almost goes in with the idea I had of defensive towers. Did they move 1/0 or something? fully immobile is a bit tough, but i guess thematic with the desc. of the collector.

[Xietor]

Read the descr of the tithe collector. He is about spreading faith. His summons are sacred monuments. If you read their descr. it basically tells you that they also spread faith.

They spread faith the same as a prophet would in the square.

They cannot fight, but when they are stuck, their god strikes the heretic blind! Click on someone who attacks one of those statutes.

[Edi]

jutetrea, the idea of a Starspawn hero for Atlantis came from the description of Chuddar KAdul, the Seer King, who is one of the Atlantean heroes originally in the game. His description refers to learning Astral magic from a captive/renegade Starspawn hidden beneath the Coral Towers. Shadul Ummush, the Traitor King, is the R'lyeh hero, an Atlantian who switched sides for personal gain. I have had ideas of exile heroes for a while, so having a surviving Basalt King was the easiest story to come up with.

That was the reasoning behind the choices. Obviously improvement in one aspect or another is always possible.

[Xietor]

In Edi's defense, I really like the Basalt King in exile's storyline. Especially if you know the history.

And while the melee heroes ARE more exciting, they also die easier in combat, and longterm, may be less powerful than the mages who open up new paths.

The Mad Tinker, though he has only 6 hp, is likely more useful to Vanheim over the course of a game then a melee type hero. Having Watchers in your castles and patrolling is a nice bonus. He also has nature magic, and can spy. A very versatile little gnome.

[jutetrea]

No defense necessary, I think you guys are misunderstanding me.

I was primarily looking at power/utility. Average being nothing jumped out at me why this guy would be epic vs a standard hero. On the power scale I would probably put him near the bottom of the second tier. For instance, the van gnome I thought was too weak, but he has a great summoning ability which jumps him up a bunch of notches so he's equivalent with most of the other nations.

Oceania's hero just seems like a standard hero to me, even with adding new paths. Just preference, and just referring to relative power. I just think that bumping a level or two or adding an ability (heal, assasinate, domsummon, ally summon, -dom, +dom, +research, +gems, etc) may bring him up a few notches. The forge ability almost does it (and may in testing, not sure).

Again these were just my initial thoughts on something I like, not a hit on your hero specifically.

[jutetrea]

Ok, the C'Tis big summons is sweet! Have yet to gift of reason him, want to see what his slots are.

Bandar's 32 prot isn't as unreal as I thought.. low morale, low hp weaken him although he's still kind of cool. Maybe prophetize him and only use in domain?

Got the machaka assassin killed outside of domain vs. a flyer with an escort. BS'd an escort then harbringer came in and beat on me.

Since these are unique, it might be cool to have a national spell for all nations (lvl 5, ench, national strong path) similar to gift of rebirth but instead of bringing a mummy back it recalls the hero. Probably not, but I've quit SP games where I've lost my favorite hero.

What was the reasoning behind bow of war on the Mict hero and 2D on the ulm hero? Just curious

[Xietor]

I gave all melee heroes a summons and a ranged weapon. There was no special reason the Blood-Cursed Champion got a Bow of War. Mictlan stinks, and i wanted a weapon that fired 13 arrows!

The Black Duke of Ulm idea was a commander from Arralen's Black Steel Ulm mod. Though i made some radical changes to him, i liked the name, the sprite, and the fact he summoned-all of which were borrowed from Arralen(with his permission).

But i created the Black Order Soldier he summons,added the forge ability, the magical steed, and because Ulm suffers from a horrific mr penalty, decided to give the "Black" Duke of Ulm a reason to be black. Obviously Arralen intended him to be black named after his black plate he wears. Since I wanted to make the Black Duke of Ulm formidable enough that Ulm became a valid mp choice, I added the 2d to him.

With the Black Duke of Ulm, Ulm gains:

1. access to death magic
2. a well equipped thug hero
3. black order soldiers-the best make units of any hero.
There are better strong dominion summons, but they are hard to amass, and will not come at all unless the dominion is strong.

Beowulf, Black Duke, and the other melee heroes can make troops in any dominion, and you know what you are getting each turn. Some of the stronger nations with melee heroes, do not get a very good make unit ability.

Ctis, Caelum, arcos. all have melee heroes, but the units they can make on a per turn basis are not nearly as good as the Black Duke. Though i changed the yeti from wingless to something more thematic. He is a creature of the wild, there was no thematic tie-in for him to make wingless.

So in the next version you will see something-different. More thematic.

4. great forge bonus-including a modification to all ulm units wearing full plate of ulm

In short, MA Ulm needed a reason for more people to play them-the Black Duke of Ulm is that reason.

[jutetrea]

Sounds good, hopefully be able to play with them a bit later. Created a 22 person game, all gods dormant, 10 dom, luck3 (to see other heroes hopefully), and as much of a bless as possible. Staled everyoen the first turn, without even looking at them... lost like 6 of them to dom kill doh. Kind of a pain to do 22 pretenders so i'll hopefully get back to it later.