New Mod: The Art of War Mod

[dumbluck]

All very good points, and I can't argue with any of them. Hell, I even thought of the negative maintenance=resource generation before I checked back here! And I very much like the idea of ship-specific mounts (ala mQNP). So that is the way it will go. Of coarse, now I have to dig into the mounts text file, that I don't even know the name of (tells ya how much I've played in THAT file, huh )

Of coarse, I was kinda fond of the crossover components that had other functions as well... Besides, it would have helped with the roleplaying... Hmmmmm... An idea is forming....

wait for it...

wait for it....

lost it. Oh well....

[ November 04, 2002, 13:03: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[geoschmo]

Well dumbluck just remember, when it's your mod you can do whatever you want. So it's not really neccesary for you to agree with anyone.

[dumbluck]

Ah, HA!

consider this:

All levels (corrosponding with shipcon levels ) of the mounts for Engineering Department gives a 5% reduction. It is the only component with a mount available to escorts.

Maintenance access tube mount is available from level 1 on up, and grants a 10% reduction for levels 1 and 2, and a 5% reduction for level 3 on up. The component itself is attained by researching Shipcon 2. It is the only component (besides engineering) available for Frigates and escorts.

Crew's Mess mount is available from level 3 on up, and grants a 10% reduction for level 3. Level 4 on up gets a 5% reduction.

Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

In this way, the lowest maintenance percentage a hull can achieve (without racial modifiers) is 95%. I think. Anyway, I gotta run.

[ November 04, 2002, 13:20: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Pax]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
All very good points, and I can't argue with any of them. Hell, I even thought of the negative maintenance=resource generation before I checked back here! And I very much like the idea of ship-specific mounts (ala mQNP). So that is the way it will go. Of coarse, now I have to dig into the mounts text file, that I don't even know the name of (tells ya how much I've played in THAT file, huh )

CompEnhancements.txt

And it shouldn't be too hard, just adapt the general format I gave an example of for the Engine-oriented mQNP mounts.

Of coarse, I was kinda fond of the crossover components that had other functions as well... Besides, it would have helped with the roleplaying... Hmmmmm... An idea is forming....

wait for it...

wait for it....

lost it. Oh well....

Here's one: just lower the % reduction for maintenance for each part. Maybe give 'em 3 levels, and make the reduction 1% per level per part. Then, even nine parts, all at level 3, is still only a 27% maintenance reduction. That's a workable range, if you go up ... um ... say 3% per ship level, in maintenance PENALY levels ... and borrow SJ's maintenance model from P&N (higher innate maintenance rates, with each ship getting a discounted rate, etc, etc).

[dumbluck]

I haven't really dug into the guts of P&N, I just like to play it! In fact, I've never really dug into the guts of ANY mod till now...

But I think I'm gonna stick with this model for now, at least until I find that it isn't working as well as SJ's... Why did he do that, anyway? Is that how he "fixed" the maintenance aptitude trait?

[Suicide Junkie]

Why did he do that, anyway? Is that how he "fixed" the maintenance aptitude trait?

Correct.

I set the basic maintenance rate to 100% of ship cost per turn.
I then added a 75% maintenance reduction to the ship hulls.

Since the maintenance reduction trait SUBTRACTS from the basic maintenance, a race that takes +20% to maintenance reduction would pay 80% maintenance per turn. The ship hull's ability then reduces that to 80% x (100%-75%) = 20%
A race that takes +60% to maint redux, will end up paying 10% maintenance instead of the normal 25%.

1) Race maintenace modifiers and the basic rate will ADD with each other.

2) Ship/base/component modifiers will ADD with each other.

3) The two Groups' totals are multiplied together for the final calculation.

[Pax]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
Ok. Here's my first real contribution to this mod. Tell me what you think. I'm expanding on Geo's idea of a maintenance reducing component, called Engineering. [...]

Names for maintenance reducers:

• Engineering Department
• Crew Mess
• Officer's Mess
• First Aid Station (available with biology + ship const. )
• Maintenance Access Tube
• Recreation room (available with Psychology + ship const.)
• Small arms locker (available with AdvMilSci + ship const 6.) (grants small Boarding Party defense)
• Automated Repair Drone (available with Repair 3 + ship const. 7)(repairs 1 per turn)
  

I'd say ... no dice. The problem here is, what's to stop someone with a 200kT escort from essentially getting more maintenance -reduction-, than they get -maintenance- ... ?
The upper limit of maintenance reduction must not drive a race with so much inherent maintenance reduction they are already paying very little as-is, or their ship could be PRODUCING resources (and I don't know if negative maintenance costs gives the EXE fits or not). Possibly a maintenance model more like that of P&N could help.

But the main thing is, the "one per ship" components, won't have a minimum shipsize (unless you go with an mQNP style series of mounts for THEM, too. Come to think of it, mount-based Lifesupport and Crew Quarters and Bridge units sounds like an interesting idea ... the bridge of a 1600kT Dreadnought should be larger than the bridge of a 200kT Escort ... shouldn't it?).

And one other thing for all you modding gurus out there: Will this work? If I've got a ship hull with (for example) an inherant +60% maintenance modifier, will it be cancelled out by 6 components each with a -10% maintenance modifier?

Actually, the protential problem is, ESCORTS with net NEGATIVE maintenance. An escort where you get, say, 25% of it's value back, every turn ... ugh! (120% racial maintenance trait, 3 maintenance reducers at 10% each, stock SE4 maintenance costs paradigm; your normal 5% maintenance costs, minus 30% from the components, gives you back 1/4 of the cost to build the ship in the first place).

The problem is, I don't believe COMPONENTS can be limited to minimum hull sizes.

Also, some of the medical-related and Pyschology-based facilities might do well as Life Support replacements, or else, a LS/Maintenance component especially for Organic-tech ships (a la Living Ships in P&N perhaps).

PS. I know there is a modding tool out there, but I can't find it... Any pointers would be appreciated...

Check the SE4 Modder thread. Or maybe PBW's Utilities downloads ...

[geoschmo]

Regarding the maint reduction comp taking the place of the life support. You aren't by any means the only one to disagree with that. Although I can't for the life of me understand how anyone would disagree. It jsut seems totally natural and obvious to me that a comp that reduces maintenance would have something to do with life support and nothing whatsoever to do with crew quarters. Since I decided to call the comp an engineering comp, it made even more sense since nobody would sleep in engineering. IIRC my engineering comp didn't totally replace LS, except in the smaller ship, which would have less of a need for LS, but still need CQ, unless the crew would be sleeping in the halls.

Now, to more of an on topic comment. Requireing additional components on the smaller ships? Even though they are small ones, wont that decrease the usefullness of an already small ship? And nine different maint reduction comps? It will certainly work, but personally I think it will make the ship designs a little cluttered. What about instead using a mount based idea similer to Pax's engine idea to limit each maint reducer to a specific hull size. Then each ship only has one new component to worry about.

Geoschmo

[Haven]

Is the new Version of this mod ready yet, where can I find a copy.

[Pax]

Well, I have the mQNP mounts scripted, and need Dumbluck to send me a private message with his email address so I can send it along.

Dumbluck, d'you also want me to handle the vehicle sizes?