OT: US Pres election

[JimMorrison]

I'm going to chalk it up as reading too much into certain statements regarding how you felt about the media. I've been straining at my leash the last few days, and am maybe a bit too trigger happy.

And I do believe in dissidence - for without it we never get clarity. Your left eye will never agree exactly with your right eye, but you just need to make sure they both are seeing the same thing.

[HoneyBadger]

The Republicans remind me a bit of the Dahomey. The Dahomey got an enormous amount of money by selling their fellow countrymen to Europeans as slaves-an unfortunate business that the US was involved in. They then turned around and used that money to buy cheap guns (which did help them secure their position in the short-term), and cheap liquor (which had all the benefits on society that cheap liquor traditionally imparts), and they kept on down that garden path of joy until the nations around them rose up, united in disgust and hatred and outrage, and thus ended the Dahomey Empire.

I, unlike many, have never been as bothered by the arrogance, insensitivity, and immorality displayed by the current regime, as I have been extremely bothered by their incompetence, short-sightedness, and unwillingness to give the American people a reason *not* to vote them out of power. If you're going to take advantage of power, then I can accept that-I even have learned to expect it. But do it in a way that atleast inspires *some* level of confidence-It's not that they're evil, it's that they can't handle power-Nixon could handle power, and J Edgar Hoover, to give you an example. Not what most people would call saints, but definitely competent and in control. Ultimately, they ended their careers ignominiously, but they were admirable power-keepers. The current regine is just sloppy and clumsy, and like the Dahomey, they're making of themselves a target, for no really good reason, because they can't handle being in charge.

The American people-honestly, we don't need our leaders to be heroes, or moral-look at the presidential careers of Ulysses S. Grant and Jimmi Carter-we just need them to give the *impression* that they are, publically, and to keep the trains running on time. If they happen to *be* heroes, or good looking, or both, we'll worship them (JFK)-but we still need to know that the country's in strong hands, sure hands, if not always *good* hands-and George W, and Cheney don't even compete in the looks department, and they're laughable as heroes, so their incompetence and shoddy handling of disasters-that they honestly might have taken steps to prevent before they happened, just cannot be excused away.

[thejeff]

OK, that attitude scares me.

Competent evil would be just fine?

If they were just good at keeping the major disasters down to a minimum you wouldn't care about the corruption, or the destruction we've wrought in far away countries?

[HoneyBadger]

Ofcourse not!-and that's not what I said. Please read what I've posted in it's entirety, before you reply to it-especially before you reply to it in such a hostile, antagonistic, irresponsible way.

Well, since you probably won't, and since I don't want everyone else who doesn't bother to think I'm some kind of satanistic evil-monger just because of your reply, what I actually *said* was that it didn't bother me *AS MUCH*.

What I mean by that is that having someone in power who's *capable* of looking out for their own interests-and if they're President of the United States, the majority of their interests certainly lie *with* the U.S., if not entirely within it-is more valuable than having someone who's not capable of doing so. The degree of goodness in their hearts notwithstanding, the main thing is that what needs to be done, gets done, and that the country be run well, and with pride. Compare that to our current regime, who've acted like a bunch of greedy stooges for the past 8 years.

It'd be great if Ghandi run for Presidency, but unfortunately, he's dead. So's Jesus and Buddha and Mother Theresa. All the saints and patriarchs? Dead, dead, dead. And God the Righteous and the Just has refused to run, so we're stuck with mere fallible humans to lead the country, and I'd rather have someone who could play the part of President convincingly, then be ashamed every time I turn on CNN.

And I didn't say just me, I said the American people (which does include me). Compare Clinton to Bush, with the full realization that Clinton was nearly impeached for something that had absolutely no effect on his ability to run the country-except possibly in a positive way, as a reducer of stress.

I'm tired of being embarrassed to be an American. I love my country, I love the ideals that it stands for, and the different people and ways of life it encompasses, and I'm tired of hearing from these little countries that our people had to *escape* from, in order just to live their lives, how we're all a bunch of screw-ups.

I want somebody in there who's basically a good person, ofcourse I do, but I also want somebody who's smart, who's a survivor, and who's got a real interest in being President.

Right now we don't *have* someone who's capable of keeping major disasters down to a minimum, so corruption here, and destruction in other countries, is secondary to that. I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way, but when my own house is on fire, I'm a little distracted by the fire-fighter who's saving my house, from his buddy who's stealing my tv--and I'm not paying close attention to the flood across town.

Sad to say, but I'd much rather have Nixon in office, than Bush.

When we have somebody in office who we don't have to worry so much about, then we'll be free to worry about other things.

[thejeff]

I reread your first post and it still reads that way to me, possibly because my opinion of our current administration is of corruption first and the stupidity and incompetence a distant second.

Most of the apparent stupidity seems to me to be more arrogance and the belief they're above the law. The kind of thing we see on display in the current banking crisis. We see CEOs running their financial empires into the ground and ask how could they have been so dumb not to see this coming, but they got their millions in bonuses in the good years and now they walk away from the ruin with more millions in severance. Who's dumb here?
Bush and Cheney have run the country into the ground and probably gotten away with it. They're started wars, funneled billions to their friends and saddled the country with the largest debts in history. If their interests lie with the US, that sounds stupid, but I've come to the conclusion that they don't. The Bush family has their new estates in Paraguay. Cheney'll be off to Halliburton's new headquarters in Dubai. What do they care?


I am glad it was a misinterpretation, though. I'd still rather have someone well-meaning, but out of their depth, than a competent crook. The competent crook can do far more damage.

[Skirmisher]

We are almost there.

[HoneyBadger]

yes it won't be long until...MY HAPPY NEKKID DANCE OF JOY!

[Gandalf Parker]

KNOCK ON VIRTUAL WOOD
I wouldnt tempt fate. He can still do some lasting things in his last days of office. Just look at the change he made to the Endangered Species Act. Now the branch in charge of dams will decide if a dam is harmful to the environment, the branch in charge of building military bases will decide if there is harmful impacts from it, etc.

[thejeff]

Of course, he will. For the moment he can still hurt McCain's chances. After the election, it'll be a free for all. No consequences for any last minute looting. And pardons all around if there's the slightest chance they'll be necessary.

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by thejeff

For the moment he can still hurt McCain's chances.

I think America knows that McCain is not the answer.
In any event we are going to find out real soon.


"If you don't vote, democracy doesn't work."

-Frank Zappa