OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:

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I dunno, seems to be working to me. Seems we have the fastest economic growth in the Last 20 years.

Really? I keep hearing that but all I see are lack of jobs, lack of services, and lack of feeling like things are going well. I dont tend to vote one way or the other but Im having trouble figuring out why this is supposed to be better than the Last guys term. I keep hearing it but personally it doesnt feel that way. And everyone I talk to seem to be in the same boat. Even the ones that agree with whats being said seem to not have any of those benefits in their own lives. They say things like "well of course personally things arent going well but the country is doing much better"

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Under the "Last guy" I was employed. Now I'm not. Nor are several of my friends who also, like me, were employed at high-paying jobs. I see lots of low-paying service sector job openings. The jobs I used to do? Gone to India. If and when I do manage to find a job, it'll be for less money than I used to make. How is the country better off, when the best jobs have and are disappearing, and at the same time we're getting deeper into debt as a nation, our image globally is horribly tarnished, and we're systematically destroying the nation's ecology and educational system, not to mention becoming ever less secure ... and free?

[Huzurdaddi]

Vigabrand you are a perfect example why everyone should not be allowed to vote.

Who cares if everyone got something. What matters is how much did everyone get back vs. how much did they lose in services. If you are at the federal 35% marginal rate ( or above ) you probably did well. Otherwise you did not.

If you can't find even the most basic of statistics, then you certainly can't claim that your argument is correct.

BWHAHAH! I stated some examples, friend. Sorry you could not counter them. The sad truth is that Canadian medical facilities are woefully under equiped vs. the US ones, further the Canadian staff members are simply inferior, on average, to the us staff members.

You should really go to a US hospital. It's amazing the difference.And you should do the lawyer thing I mention. It's amazing the difference.

Oh, I thought you were saying that the tort system in the U.S. was a good thing

You are quite comical. Indeed the US tort system PROTECTS those who get treatment here. I'm sorry to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

No, I don't know _anyone_ who goes to the U.S. for any treatments whatsoever.

Wow. All I can say is that you are either willfully ignorant or I totally misjudged your SES. If it is the latter I am sorry.

[vigabrand]

Gandalf, what exactly did it kill? Taxes are no higher this year than Last. It's turning out to be a pretty good year for me. I think it's going to depend on where you live as to how well the economy is doing (I don't think the midwest is doing that much better). A million new jobs, record numbers in homeowner growth, a resurgence in the tech industry (at least in Atlanta), things definately look better than they did after 9/11, when I lost my job. At least from my perspective.

[vigabrand]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
Vigabrand you are a perfect example why everyone should not be allowed to vote.

Who cares if everyone got something. What matters is how much did everyone get back vs. how much did they lose in services. If you are at the federal 35% marginal rate ( or above ) you probably did well. Otherwise you did not.

I think the evidence is pretty poignant. The economy is surging, because people used the money to pay their bills or buy things. I don't see any reduction in services. Actually, I see private sector services dramatically increased. The gov't services are still status quo. Your argument is based on things that might happen in the future. You don't use facts to argue, instead you attack me personally by claiming I shouldn't be allowed to vote, and make predictions based on the democrat talking points. You don't have to listen to me about the tax cuts, listen to Allen Greenspan.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by vigabrand:
Gandalf, what exactly did it kill? Taxes are no higher this year than Last. It's turning out to be a pretty good year for me. I think it's going to depend on where you live as to how well the economy is doing (I don't think the midwest is doing that much better). A million new jobs, record numbers in homeowner growth, a resurgence in the tech industry (at least in Atlanta), things definately look better than they did after 9/11, when I lost my job. At least from my perspective.

Maybe its a California thing, and me being in tech. We do have the additional help of Arnold. I see the same numbers you are quoting but Im wondering if you are getting them from the news or if you actually SEE those things around you. Ive had 2 sons job hunting and this seems an extremely low year for that. The unemployment place seemed swamped until that ran out. I see alot of people trying very hard to sell things like boats and cars they can no longer afford. We have been trying for a year to sell my Dads house on Corpus Christi lake in Texas (more retirement/vacation home than someplace to move to). I see my favorite companys going under, cutting back, canceling projects. Conventions being cancelled. Concerts and concert tours cancelled. Im seeing REAL lacks in police, fire, schools, highway (they always complained they wanted more but now Im seeing things not done that they obviously want to be able to do).

Im just as willing as the next guy to want to see the things I keep hearing on the news. I just am not seeing it so I wondered if you see it there or is it the news numbers you see.

[ July 27, 2004, 17:25: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
BWHAHAH! I stated some examples, friend. Sorry you could not counter them.

Anecdotal examples are not evidence, nor are they statistics.

The sad truth is that Canadian medical facilities are woefully under equiped vs. the US ones, further the Canadian staff members are simply inferior, on average, to the us staff members.

Once again, please provide actual evidence that this is the case instead of simply stating it to be true.

You are quite comical. Indeed the US tort system PROTECTS those who get treatment here. I'm sorry to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.

No, all you've shown is that the U.S. tort system is as litiguous and broken as ever. Lawsuits after the fact do not protect those people that experienced harm in the first place.

Wow. All I can say is that you are either willfully ignorant or I totally misjudged your SES. If it is the latter I am sorry.

SES? Please don't use meaningless acronyms.

I am not willfully ignorant, I am telling you that I do not know anyone that has gone to the U.S. for treatment. I'm also still waiting for something other than your baseless assertion that this is anywhere near as prevalent as you seem to think it is.

Come on, I've provided my statistics, where are yours.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by vigabrand:
I think the evidence is pretty poignant. The economy is surging, because people used the money to pay their bills or buy things.

I think that a much more likely reason for the economy to be surging is that the government has added over a hundred billion dollars into the economy through deficit spending.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I think that a much more likely reason for the economy to be surging is that the government has added over a hundred billion dollars into the economy through deficit spending.

To add to this, for the sake of attempting to educate Viga, that deficit spending was/is the Iraq situation. And the surge is mainly in defense-related industries, and the local areas the plants are located in. Atlanta happens to be one of those fortunate areas. Houston isn't, hence I'm not reaping the alleged benefits of the government's (unsound) policy of mortgaging the future to cater to the present.

[archaeolept]

yah, massive deficit spending is the traditional way to get the economy revving. spend now, pay later. the hundreds of billions in deficit spending this Last year quite dwarf the few billion in tax cuts.

as to canadians going down to the states for medical care, I can't say i've ever known anyone to do that either. I'm sure it happens, especially for rare procedures, but it doesn't seem to be statistically significant.

as to our doctors and nurses being inferior to american health care workers, that's just silly. If it were true, they wouldn't be in such demand down in the states.

statistics fairly consistently show Canadians as being healthier and having somewhat higher life expectancies than Americans.



[ July 27, 2004, 17:58: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

[Huzurdaddi]

Anecdotal examples are not evidence, nor are they statistics.

They are indeed evidence. They are not statistics.

Once again, please provide actual evidence that this is the case instead of simply stating it to be true.

Google it yourself willfully ignorant boy.

Lawsuits after the fact do not protect those people that experienced harm in the first place.

Lawsuits ( a ) give compensation for damage , ( b ) provide a strong disincentive to perform malpractice and ( c ) remove people who commit malpractice from the medical system.

But, of course, you know this. Much like you know that Canada's health system is worthless compared to the US system *if* you can pay in the US.

SES? Please don't use meaningless acronyms

Ahh I see your definition of meaningless. If you do not understand something it is meaningless. If you disagee with something being evidence it is not. I think I start to understand.

Come on, I've provided my statistics, where are yours.

And I explained why the statistics you provided show that free medical coverage increases aggregate health figures. However that does not mean that the health system is "better." Of course as always you fail to realize this.

How lame.