Halt Heretic - Opinions

[B0rsuk]

To be blunt, some nations weren't meant for progression, but as alternate versions. It seems like Kristoffer decided it was better to put them in anyway instead of just throwing away. Fair enough.

More about Ulm: in a way, Ulm progression is:

1-3-2

At least as far as armour and magic is concerned. I completely forgot Ulm supposedly comes from Ermor. Perhaps because Pythium and Marignon look more convincing for me. Looking at Pythium it's hard to forget it comes from Ermor. If anything, it might be a little too similar. Ok, but as far as units go, MA Ulm has little similarities with EA Ulm, and with Ermor, too. Now that Ulm has inquisition, it may have more in common with Marignon than Ermor, and Marignon just got less unique.

I think Ulm's infantry should be buffed and buffed until their strategic move (1), low MR, and extreme expense become necessary to keep them from being overpowered.

[Shovah32]

Edi, I love you. I'd always just thought of it as Ulm/Marignon/Pythium getting out when they saw things start to go bad but your alternate timeline just seems to make more sense to me.
And of course, Ashen Empire vs MA Marignon could be pretty awesome.

Finally, it would allow one of my favourite nations(MA Ermor) into the late age.

[Sombre]

I don't really see a problem with Ermor's progression through the ages, in a general sense.

They start out as republic style roman nation with old and new faiths vying for control. They are influenced by the sauromancers and go down the path of death magic heavily. Overuse of this death magic has terrible results and you get Ashen Empire.

I know it doesn't fit the descriptions exactly, but it makes sense to me. They slide into an undead nation. MA is just the halfway point.


I agree that EA -> MA Ulm is a bit odd, but given the length of time,.. well Germany changed a lot from migratory tribes to the Holy Roman Empire. I see EA Ulm as a pre-national faction, before 'civilisation' really kicked in and therefore very different. The connection being steel. But EA Ulm is a bit of a weird nation, due to the whole balance issue of the female troops being flat out better than the males, so I basically end up playing them as amazons.

[Saulot]

There are two problems here, as pertain to this thread.

One (this was mentioned several times) is MA Ulm still has basically no influence from either EA Ulm, or Ermor.

Two, your story (which I confess I like and is logical) conflicts with the dominions storyline and atmosphere in one key way, that it is essentially one of decline and doom. This is I suspect why KO went with the Ashen after the Broken, and the Malediction after the Iron Faith.

Obviously the parallel timelines are what caused these problems, and is a good reminder why parallel universes and time travel should not be touched with a ten foot pole, as they tend to muck everything up.

[llamabeast]

So, like Sombre, I see the progression of Ermor as reasonable. It's fine, then a bit corrupted by death magic, then totally destroyed.

Marverni is essentially the pre-occupation Gauls and Celts, EA Ulm the Germanic tribes. By MA, Ermor has conquered them, and then declined so that Ulm, Marignon and Pythium have broken away. Marverni presumably either remains occupied or is no longer important. Ulm is Germanic again, only much further on in their history - it's a medieval rather than barbaric theme. Marignon is France/Spain in the Inquisition, and Pythium is Byzantium. Sorted!

[Edi]

Sombre, Saulot, the reason I place Ashen Empire after EA by preference is because when I once asked about this, Kristoffer said that it was supposed to have happened that way and things got complicated with the introduction of Broken Empire.

The gradual decline model messes with the continuity a lot more than the catastrophic fall, but it's the one we have to live with. The things is that people were asking WTF was up with the Ulm eras and I provided an explanation for it. Black Forest was always supposed to be after the Iron Kingdom just as Pythium was always Byzantium to Ermor's Rome. Ashen Empire and Broken Empire are originally parallel alternates and I think the idea of reclamation never occurred to Illwinter due to the work they had already done on BE in Dom2. So they made it a decline, which then has people asking all these questions about the continuity.

As far as Marverni goes, we have Kristoffer on record saying that Marignon is MA Marverni, meaning the nation changes drastically due to Ermorian influence when going from early to middle era.

[NTJedi]

I like the Halt Heretic trait... it would be nice to see a few summoning spells for units with this trait allowing more than one nation to use this strategy against sacred armies with strong blesses.

[B0rsuk]

It would also strip Ulm of one of its best advantages. Ulm pays a heavy price for it - little magic, slow infantry, poor magic resistance... I'm particularly opposed to summonable commanders with 'halt heretic'.