MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This a boiling down to "reading the tea leaf's" when it comes to a lot of equipment we deal with including the M1A2C (SEP V3). My "brain" has been busy so I can't remember what the revised date I threw out was but, the game START of JUN 2020 wasn't correct.

But it thrills me to no end to keep tracking these things until FOC is achieved. We are about at the 4 year mark now almost it appears based on the following army.mil articles below we still have a bit to go. But I see a "faint light on the horizon", because now I know what Division will be first fully equipped and that'll be the 1st Cav. Div. Ft. Hood, TX. and the process has begun.

The article is from Sep 17, 2020 on the occasion of the Divisions 99th Anniversary. Now knowing how our military "loves" to mark sometimes major new equipment news with major unit anniversaries when they present themselves such as a 100th one, I think we might see FOC in JAN 2022.
https://www.army.mil/article/239141/...rates_99_years

New we move to November 18, 2020 and the 2nd Armored Brigade Combat Team , 1st Cavalry Division, “Black Jack” s the first command to receive the Next Generation Automatic Test System or NGATS which the M1A2C and newer BRADLEY's will be equipped with. This will allow a unit to maintain their equipment and repair them quicker in a "running" battle if you will.
https://www.army.mil/article/241069/...testing_system

All these type of issues are what's needed to get, if you will, to the "end product". Again the "tea leaf's" are suggesting START JAN 2022.

Well for the CORPS as I posted a couple of days ago, "no news is good news" for concerning their tanks.

I just went through their .mil site and the following official DOD website, which will link you to the USMC current force structure.. I'm sure you do the same for the USA if you want.
https://www.defense.gov/Experience/M.../Marine-Corps/

Alright here's the ARMY...
https://www.defense.gov/Experience/Military-Units/Army/

Now I'm off to bed, some of us still need to earn a living!?!

Regards,
Pat


EDIT: So I had to have a Protein/Fiber bar with a glass of ice cold milk, should've skipped it and kept on going to towards bed!?! The brain turned on again and made me find the following from 07 DEC 2020 which details the USMC plan to allow 1yr. early out for those holding the 4 MOS's for their tankers.

Based on that information, that would probably have the tanks gone by JAN 2022-JUN 2022 timeframe at latest.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...-a-year-early/

Now to get some sleep!

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Well for the CORPS as I posted a couple of days ago, "no news is good news" for concerning their tanks.

I can see where the 3-man Fire Team might be a "good" idea due to the ACVs smaller passenger capacity BUT the standard 4-man team allows for 2x "Buddy Teams" and ye olde pup tent takes two halves so a 3-man team doesn't work. Also foxholes in the USMC are typically 2-man so you only lose half a Fire Team to a grenade I assume the 3-man team = a 3-man foxhole ... not good.

But I'm no longer active duty, nor was I ever a general ... so ...

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

.........the "tea leaf's" are suggesting START JAN 2022.

(sigh........)

OK.... we have two M1A2C in the OOB's.

u538 which is the one without Trophy that only ran to 6/22 and u537 which is the Trophy version with runs to the end of the game.

If the start date is being pushed back 18 months then methinks u538 is a waste of space and should be deleted because they all should (?) be equipped with Trophy by then and u537 should have the 1/22 start date.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

About the USMC I get that, I believe I came across a ref. where the 1st(?) MEU was experimenting with larger small size units i.e. 15 to a platoon. It's I believe still ongoing and might or might not be part of PLAN 2030.

Sorry I didn't get those UNIT numbers to you for the M1A2C , but I have to agree with your logic. Had a busy and long day yesterday and by time I was finished the "first time" with my last post I was done.

Uncased a new Wi-Fi/3.1 USB printer, CINCLANTHOME asked me to take Christmas off this year, the first requested one in 10 years and made a 4 day weekend so I can play with my new (But don't which one.) 32" 1500R curved gaming monitor!

Done with flat screens HAaaRrrVARD Medical School (One of the very best in this country.) did a long term study and found they are much better for your eyes as they approximate the eyes natural 165 degree peripheral angle of your eyes.

So a 1500R or the new 1000R from SAMSUNG this (At about 170 degrees.) are best. Mine won't be the SAMSUNG because the monitors in the price point I wanted to be in didn't get overwhelming reviews.

Your health tip for the day.

Time for my walk and relax before work as I have the late post today.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

From April 10, 2020 concerning Nigeria. It was on my list, if you want me to scratch it off let me know so I can delete from my worklist and files. As I mentioned in the forum across a couple of threads, I wasn't going to post on articles of equipment that I knew would be available for the Patch from 2020.

Again let me know so I can move on to the next thing, please. From my files, I hadn't a chance yet to cross reference these any further, if you need me to do that across my normal refs let me know.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/apri...rian_army.html
https://www.defenceweb.co.za/feature...-acquisitions/

No word from Germany, I'm going to give that one more shot. If I don't get a response, I'll proceed on my own as I have in my head already given it some thought on how to move forward.

Regards,
Pat


P.S. Might as well provide these as I'm tracking on the program as I feel we might just "barely" see the following become operational before "we turn out the lights"!?! The 82nd has been chosen to evaluate the prototypes...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ght_tanks.html
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...ank-prototypes

It's possible I might've missed it, but given COVID events of the last month and currently in the UK, I haven't seen anything of value concerning the Defense Review. What hasn't changed is my views on AJAX as already discussed in the APC Thread.

USMC looks like the MBT's will be gone by Dec. 2021 at latest. Seriously thinking about END Dates for all USMC MBT's with exception of the M1A1 FEP ones, for DEC 2020 based on units that have "cased their colors".
No mention in any articles already posted that anything other then the M1A1 has been turned over to the USA. Those tanks were transported to USA Depots for conversation to M1A2C within less then a month after those units cased their colors.

I further base this on the fact that what the USMC ordered and received in the M1A1 FEP would match with about how many tanks they should have left currently.

That is all for now, going to enjoy the rest of what has been a busy weekend for us.

Good Night!!

P.S.S
Well almost, now 2314 after an enjoyable (Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow.), I checked my papers and found the following, I had reported on the LAOS tank deal a couple of years back with Russia. So lets just call this "Something Old That's New Again"...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...-34_tanks.html

Also (Today) this confirms Mark's source on Nigeria's first use of their VT-4 tanks in combat.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...vt4_tanks.html

Now for real, Good Night!

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

About the USMC I get that, I believe I came across a ref. where the 1st(?) MEU was experimenting with larger small size units i.e. 15 to a platoon.

15 to a squad, currently 13, they were considering 12 (with a 3-man HQ team vs the current 1, i.e. Squad Leader).

A platoon is 3x Squads + a HQ element (usually 4-man).

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

USMC looks like the MBT's will be gone by Dec. 2021 at latest. Seriously thinking about END Dates for all USMC MBT's with exception of the M1A1 FEP ones, for DEC 2020 based on units that have "cased their colors".
No mention in any articles already posted that anything other then the M1A1 has been turned over to the USA. Those tanks were transported to USA Depots for conversation to M1A2C within less then a month after those units cased their colors.

Holding off on this till mid 2021 ... they can still change their minds, not like it hasn't happened (often) before.

[DRG]

Right now I have not touched the end date for USMC MBTs at all for the exact same reason and any decision on what to do ( if anything ) will be held back until early March of this year. A lot could happen after Jan 20th

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

When the USMC tank issue first came up, I also recommended we wait. As I indicated, "I was thinking about..." that's because articles started popping up around Nov/Dec 2020 indicating they will be gone as soon as the last quarter of FY 2021 (Jul-Sep 2021) or first quarter of FY 2022 (Oct-Dec 2021) just reporting is all I'm doing.

TURKEY-ALTAY: We still haven't reached 0 month for this tank (As some might remember as I posted, Turkey is thinking 24 months from production start to delivery of the first tank.. Based on the following, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
https://raillynews.com/2020/05/The-e...k-is-resolved/

As the below refs. will show the engine problem wasn't solved as the above indicates.

They still haven't worked out the issues of the engine or transmission as of right now. The first ref. indicates they hope to start trials with the engine sometime later this year.

Also no word on the transmission which is no surprise if you haven't finalized your engine design.

I don't intend to submit another date change for this tank, it can wait until next year. that'll put the ALTAY out to late 2024 into 2025 sometime if at all.
https://www.defensenews.com/industry...-tank-program/
Those talks fell through.
https://yetkinreport.com/en/2020/12/...reign-support/
https://www.overtdefense.com/2021/01...lans-for-2021/

They should've left the Kurds in Syria alone (Pissing off the EU.) and more importantly, they never should've bought those S-400 Systems from Russia now fielded this past Fall. Due to that the we cut cut them off from the F-35 and associated technologies (And moved it out of the country.) and as for South Korea, they dropped out of the program a few years ago and won't go back as relations with us are more important to their long term stability in dealing with North Korea and China.

UK Defense Review: This has been pushed back until February 2021. So CHALLENGER 2/WARRIOR CSP and possibly AJAX are still in limbo.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...oured-vehicles

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright I need to get the ball rolling on this ASAP based on the following couple of refs.

Russia (Like the rest of the World.) is getting hit hard from leaked and other sources with COVID-19, apparently their vaccine isn't proving to be as affective as advertised by the government which, here it is known to be one of the top cyber hack issues from the breach we suffered, that they were trying to get (Vaccine Data) as was disclosed last last month early.

Economy still wrecked from the above and from the "Oil War" they were in for many months with Saudi Arabia until a "truce" of sorts was agreed to about the November time frame. If you wondered why your gas was so cheap for about 6-8 months.

I noticed the words "full rate production" and no time frame for when this year it would start production were given either in the first ref.

Also for that scenario Russia vs. Ukraine 2022, I offer the following as well from ref 1...
"The T-14 Armata is the next generation of MBT that will enter into service (We know that but, when?) with the Russian army. according to Russian military sources, the first batch of 100 T-14 (These are the Prototype and Test Beds.) tanks could be delivered and deployed with the 2nd Guards Tamanskaya Motor Rifle Division in 2021."

1. Forget the 200 I thought possible by end of 2022.

2. They might not make it at all by then beyond those 100. If they get to the 2nd Guards.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe..._t-15_ifv.html

This above mentions the fact they're going to attempt this while the "trials" are still ongoing, so think about this, they want to build the the T-14/T-15 while their still trying to figure out how to fix them in the first place!?! They need to consult with Turkey and India and ask them how that worked with the ALTAY and ARJUN. It didn't, it delayed one by a couple of years and the other is still "scratching their heads" as well.

So by extension and as I've posted on regularly over the years, they to are suffering from the same technical issues that Turkey is having with the ALTAY, further compounded by problems revolving around certain electronic packages to include but not limited to the FCS.

You must remember the following:
1. This is Russia first from the ground-up tank design in decades. They take time even the ABRAMS and LEOPARDS took years and years to from design to FOC.

So what is Russia doing in the meantime? Well here's what the Russian Army is getting in 2021 along with what they got in 2019/2020 first...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove...to_troops.html
(I have to reverify my submission on the T-90M as UNIT 059 has START of JUN 2020.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove...bvm_tanks.html
(T-80BMV in the North.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/dece...-80_tanks.html
(We're good here, these for the Eastern District for China to ponder.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/apri..._vehicles.html
(We're GOOD on the T-90M, I used this for the tank as submitted I believe, BUT kept it for the IFV. Now in my APC/IFV folder.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/may_...s_in_2020.html
(This fits our "hybrid" UNIT 697, I think we're good here, as you read further down the article.)

And finally for 2021...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...s_in_2021.html
(No T-14/T-15.)

What I think will be needed is to change the T-15 UNIT 346 START to JUN 2022 (Matches current T-14 date.) vice JUN 2021. These 2 armor units are bound together at least mechanically and by some other subsystems.

Now you folks know how long I keep my "poop", though now I have deleted the GP News stuff.

How I love "house keeping"!?!

Regards,
Pat