The Bogarus Problem

[chrispedersen]

Father of winters was my solution to the Bogarus problem was well Nike - see my earlier post.

My own observation is that the father of winters chill effect is so strong, that even with cold resistence 50 you will kill a lot of your own troops.

So, I'd rather kill cheap troops than expensive ones. But maybe your placement is better than mine - placement is one of my weaknesses.

[Rytek]

My solution is an Awake Virtue:
Dom 10
A4
E3
Order 3
Sloth 3
Cold 3
Growth 3
Misfortune 1
Magic 1
Dominion 10 gives your Virtue Awe 7

Turn 1 make your scout profit. Set taxes to 130%. Patrol with your army. Buy a Starets and as many archers as you can.
Your Goddess researches Alteration.

Turn 2 your goddess attacks a weak province. Position in back corner of battlefield. Script: Air shield, Hold, attack Archers.
Add archers to starting army and patrol again. Set taxes at 150%
Buy another Starets and some heavy infantry.
Set first Starets to researching. Set Scout Profit to preaching. You need to spread your dominion fast and make sure your Goddess fights in her dominion until she gets buffs.

Turn 3 See if you can buy an independent commander at your new province. If so, get it. Buy another Starets and some more heavy infantry at the capitol. Add heavy infanty to starting army. Keep patrolling at 150% taxes. Pick another province with Pretender. Just a quick note: The best early provinces are ones with human type troops, archers, militia, light infantry.
Turn 4-6 keep taking 1 per turn with the pretender. Keep patrolling and buying a starlet every turn. Look for a second province to plop a castle down on. Something to look for: A province with at least 5000+ population so you can start some blood hunting up. Another nice province is one that you can recruit a Indep Nature mage from it. But really, just plop a castle down between 4-6, get a lab up.

After you get Alteration 3, (mistform,ironskin,) head straight for Conjuration 3 for summon earth power. And then finally to construction 2 to put some equipment on your pretender. One quick note to watch. when you hit Alteration 2 and script stone skin, watch the cold level in the province or you will get extra fatigue.

The Virtue realy is a paper tiger. But if you can get to Alt 3 without a bad affliction, its smooth sailing. By turn 12 you should have ALT 3, conj3 and cons 2 and a 2nd castle.

Note, this build also works with some variations.

Dom 7 Air 4, death 5 Virtue (Awe and fear plus the death and air helps with boosters later on.

Dom 7 air 4, nature 5 Virtue (nature gives barksin at alt 1 which really helps. not to mention regen which is hard to get an item for with your national mages

[Ming]

IMHO the starting point for Bogarus has to be an awake SC pretender that is capable of taking indie provinces without equipment, high dominion, and good scales (you can afford these with C3). The advantages are obvious and has been stated by me and others earlier.

To deviate from that one need to ask two questions:

1. Can Bogarus defend itself against an aggressive neighbour without an awake defender?

2. Can the design points saved from not having an awake pretender be put to BETTER use?

I think that the answer to 1. is probably yes except in specific circumstances, even without having to hire a lot of H3 epachs.

The answer to 2. is more difficult. Putting the design points to good use (which is easy) is not the same as putting the design points to BETTER use than having an awake pretender. I have yet to find a way to spend the design points that would make the situation superior to that of having an awake pretender. I am still looking though.

[Nikelaos]

chrispedersen said:
Father of winters was my solution to the Bogarus problem was well Nike - see my earlier post.

My own observation is that the father of winters chill effect is so strong, that even with cold resistence 50 you will kill a lot of your own troops.

So, I'd rather kill cheap troops than expensive ones. But maybe your placement is better than mine - placement is one of my weaknesses.

too be fair i do sorta have the druzinha close by to the pretender but i find they are quite surviveable to the effects (more so than ther chaff because of hp) and their stats in both protection and defence/parry skill allows them to take as little damage from enemy troops as possible. i admit i do take casualties from the chill effect but in the end it is half as much as the enemy and with half the fatigue on surviving ones so despite the frozen loses i find i can comfortably win especially with the back up of mages and archers.

[chrispedersen]

Another solution:

+3,+3,-3,+3,-1,-2 : Gaiea, 1E 2N Dom9.

Besides generally solid, it has the emotionally satisfying extra of leaving 0 points.

First turn, build out all standard builders. Alchemize and build a FiveFold Angel. Prophetize your scout.

Dump them in with your archers. Either don't order them, or give em hold and attack.

Going this route, I have expanded 6 territories with only 5 - 6 casualties. Build only Std Cavalry, and heavy cavalry. Which you should be able to do 6/turn and build a starets each turn, with the settings listed.

Key tho is to get that 5Fold out and increase dominion. Increasing dominion increases gods hp - and decreases the chances of getting afflicted.

I think this causes fewer self inflicted casualties than Father of Winter, and fewer afflictions than virtue. Whether it could stop a bless rush nation...

[Ming]

Epach is both cheaper and more effective for increasing dominion than 5fold, and does not cause unrest. The strategy is otherwise sound.

[Ming]

Oh, you meant increasing dominion in hostile territory... epach increasing dominion in friendly territory might still give a better result even though you have less control.

[Nikelaos]

i find that 5folds really should be used just for increasing unrest in enemy lands, with a few khlyst behind them they can halt unit production in just a few months if your opponent fails to spot te unrest and/or fails to patrol.

I find the eparch is by far the best choice for spreading dominion and using 5folds for that purpose doesn't make good enough use of their abilities.

[chrispedersen]

Absolutlely agree.

However, with a standard start, you have precisely 1 resource left over, and exactly 150 gold.

The only thing you can build is a 5 Fold. And it still works.
Sure, after the first turn build what you like = ).

[Nikelaos]

well i guess you do got a point there and it does work, if not to the same effect as an eparch.

also i thinkles that we have solved the bogarus problem, some of these strategies really work and after the first year or so b.ogarus does start to pick up speed as a nation.