Adamant Mod Discussion Thread

[Fyron]

- You describe the leaky shiel as "taking half of the damage, instead of all or 0". But to my understanding your shield still take 100% of the damage, until depleted. What am I misunderstanding?

The difference is that standard shields absorb all damage until they are depleted, and then no longer provide protection. Leaky shields continually provide protection because some points are added to the shields every time the ship is damaged (as the shields use the Crystalline Armor ability).

- About leaky armor, are you sure that the small armor has a lower chance to be hit? I agree that each individual small armor has a smaller chance to be hit than a bigger one, but if you put 10 small armor (size=1kt) there is the same change than an armor will be hit as if you put 1 big armor (size=10kt), isn't it? The only difference is the total cost and the total structure, and the easiness to repair (the smaller number the better). From what you say it seems to be better to have many small armor for higher structure.

Which component is hit is based off of the hit points of the component, not its size. Heavy armors are likely to be hit first becuase they have a huge number of hit poitns. Using just light armor, there is a much greater chance that internals will be hit because each light armor component has fewer hit points, and so is less likely to be selected to be hit.

Also about colonization tech, why don't you use restricted trait for ICe/Rock/Gaz colonixation, the same way you use it for race type?

I copied the colony traits from EKolis' Colony Tech Mod, which did not use them.

[StarBaseSweeper]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:

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- You describe the leaky shiel as "taking half of the damage, instead of all or 0". But to my understanding your shield still take 100% of the damage, until depleted. What am I misunderstanding?

The difference is that standard shields absorb all damage until they are depleted, and then no longer provide protection. Leaky shields continually provide protection because some points are added to the shields every time the ship is damaged (as the shields use the Crystalline Armor ability).

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I understand now, thank you for the explanation. I was surprise to know any damaged component would create shield when hit.

quote:

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- About leaky armor, are you sure that the small armor has a lower chance to be hit? I agree that each individual small armor has a smaller chance to be hit than a bigger one, but if you put 10 small armor (size=1kt) there is the same change than an armor will be hit as if you put 1 big armor (size=10kt), isn't it? The only difference is the total cost and the total structure, and the easiness to repair (the smaller number the better). From what you say it seems to be better to have many small armor for higher structure.

Which component is hit is based off of the hit points of the component, not its size. Heavy armors are likely to be hit first becuase they have a huge number of hit poitns. Using just light armor, there is a much greater chance that internals will be hit because each light armor component has fewer hit points, and so is less likely to be selected to be hit.).

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Still, then the probability for teh armor to be hit depends on the ratio struture/size.
Small armor: size,struct = 1kt,2kt
Big armor: size,struct = 10kt,7kt

Then for a size of 10kt you can have:
10 small => struct of armor=10*2=20
1 big => struct of armor=1*7=7
So the small armore have 3 time more chances to be hit that if using big armor.

Am I still wrong?

quote:

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Also about colonization tech, why don't you use restricted trait for ICe/Rock/Gaz colonixation, the same way you use it for race type?

I copied the colony traits from EKolis' Colony Tech Mod, which did not use them.

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OK

[Fyron]

Still, then the probability for teh armor to be hit depends on the ratio struture/size.
Small armor: size,struct = 1kt,2kt
Big armor: size,struct = 10kt,7kt

Then for a size of 10kt you can have:
10 small => struct of armor=10*2=20
1 big => struct of armor=1*7=7
So the small armore have 3 time more chances to be hit that if using big armor.

Am I still wrong?

Your numbers are wrong. Actually, those armors would almost never be hit before other components because they have fewer hit points than nearly all non-armor components (as most have 10 or more hit points). You'll have to get the actual calculations from SJ though, as he is the one that came up with the leaky armor system. All I know is that it works. Go try it out in the combat simulator.

[ May 13, 2003, 09:11: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[StarBaseSweeper]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Your numbers are wrong. Actually, those armors would almost never be hit before other components because they have fewer hit points than nearly all non-armor components (as most have 10 or more hit points). You'll have to get the actual calculations from SJ though, as he is the one that came up with the leaky armor system. All I know is that it works. Go try it out in the combat simulator.

Ok, I guess depends on umbers
If it works...I just gonna try it then

Wonder if SJ has time to answer newbees

[Fyron]

You won't find a guy more willing to spend his time answering newbies than SJ!

It is possible that I do not have the numbers exactly right to create the optimal effect I was planning on, but it is certainly close.

[StarBaseSweeper]

I remember reading SJ first Posts about P&N, full of ideas.

When I see what it became... quite impressive.

I was wondering, would, by any magic, the emissive ability have the same property as Create damage from shield, meaning that if an internal component would have emissive value, then the whole ship would have?

[Krsqk]

Components with Armor ability: Smallest structure values tend to be hit first.
Components without Armor ability (leaky armor): Larger structure values tend to be hit first.

These don't seem to be influenced too much by numbers of components. In P&N, for instance, a space yard (~200 structure) will still most often be hit first, even if the ship has 10 Buckytube Gel comps (~30 structure).

[Suicide Junkie]

I don't have exact statistics available, but when you compare a small number of large-hitpoint components and a large number of small-hitpoint components, with the same total hitpoints, the larger-hitpoint components get hit more often than randomly by component, and even more often than the 50% by hitpoints.

The example I used for testing was the B5 light, medium and heavy "Inert Armor".
I don't recall exactly what they were, but take it as:
10 hp/1 kt for light armor
50 hp/10 kt for heavy armor

I designed identical ships, except for armor...
6 guns, and 6 engines from standard SE4, minimum requirements for equipment.
The light armor ship ended up with 6K hitpoints, while the Heavy armor ship ended up with 4K hitpoints.

Guess who wins? 60-70% of the time, it was the heavy armor ship. Even though it had fewer armor components and only 2/3rds the number of hitpoints, it usually won the battles.

Tactical combat, and watching each hit showed that the heavy ship would win because its heavier armor got hit more often, and less damage leaked through to destroy weapons.
The light armored ship would lose firepower, and become unable to fight back.

On the occasions of the light armor ship winning, the heavy ship would suffer bad luck on its own shots; failing to damage enough weapons on the light ship. Trading blow for blow, the 4k heavy armor hitpoints simply ran out first.

[Fyron]

The abilities that various armor types have are not directly tied to the armor ability. Emissive ability works on all armor components when it is on a component that has armor, and it works on all components when it is on a component without the armor ability (just like shields from damage).

[tesco samoa]

Fryon.... can you mod restrictions or are they hardcoded ?????