WinSPMBTver3.0 Info

[DRG]

Djuice said:
Don't even think there is even such a tank called T-72BM1. There is the T-72B(M) which is a T-72B equipped with Kontakt-5 ERA.

OK I have this sorted out now . FYI the only difference in the OOB's you have now between the tanks marked T-72BM and T-72BM1 is that the BM1's have "VIRSS" and the "BM's" don't. I have left those but remamed them ( and the "BM"s ) so that players have a choice. If they want the "VIRSS" they can have it if not, they don't. They may all have it....or not. This is a compromise. Removing units causes problems with scenarios if that unit is used and I think in this case it's an acceptable compromise. For those tanks there is now a T-72B(M) and a T-72B(M)* the * in this one case indicates it carries defensive measures.

The T-72BM has been added. We do not model "third" generation ERA. a single digit number is simple era and 11-19 is all "advanced" ERA The compromise to this improved ERA is to increase the number. In this case it now has an "18" for ERA.

I assume the Missles stay the same or have they been upgraded as well?


Don

[BaronvonBeer]

Another piece of equipment that IMO deserves a second look, is the TOW-2B. (understand that this patch is nearly out the door, so certainly not expecting anything to happen this time around, if at all. Then again, never "Expect" anything, as we are owed nothing )

As is, the TOW-2B's 100 "pen" is, I assume, from many sources lumping it and the TOW-2A together, and then listing a penetration value (typically 800 or 1000-1025mm RHA)

This is correct for the TOW-2A, and it's HEAT warhead. However, the TOW-2B does not have a HEAT warhead, but uses dual (E)xplosive (F)ormed (P)enetrators. (In essence KEPs produced from the initial explosion)

Now, in 2 like sized warheads (warhead diameter and thus cone liner diameter for HEAT, dish for EFPs) the EFP is going to have a significantly lesser penetration, but can achieve it at a variable standoff distance, whereas a given HEAT warhead has an ideal standoff detonation distance, anything more or less will reduce capability.

The TOW-2B's warheads (2 offset to increase hit/kill chance) are ~1" smaller, @ 5".

Now finding an exact penetration value is like finding unicorn teeth. However, the physics involved are pretty straightforward (Comparing the principal factors of HEAT penetration to those of Kinetic penetration.) and tell the overall tale.

One set of guesstimates (The SB Pro PE developers and their sources) have it at 350mm RHA. Now as to how accurate that figure is, impossible to say. It is no doubt closer than 1,000mm.

[DRG]

So esentially the 2B is a dual charge warhead ( the effect is similar )

The thing is, in the game the 2b is a different weapon class than the "2a". The 2b's a top attack missle which already has different charateristics built into the class

Don

[JaM]

TOW-2B is a top attack ATGM with EFP, TOW-2A has dual charge warhead and direct attack.

[BaronvonBeer]

Right, it has 2 warheads, but the warheads do not act anything like a HEAT charge, they are completely different beasts.

It forms 2 ballistic penetrators (these are solid mass plates compressed to a bullet(ish) shape, not the super heated/pressurized "jet" of a HEAT warhead. The extent of their similarity is the shape of the explosives within the missile upon detonation. It is at that point that it ends.

These 2 "warheads" are not dual charge in the sense of a HEAT round, with a "spoiling" charge to trigger ERA. It has both going off simultaneously at different angles to ensure a hit as the missile overflies the target.

As far as ERA, there is no "jet" to be disturbed. It is a solid mass kinetic penetrator, same as any AP round fired from a gun tube.
Here is a photo of a "formed" EFP.

It does not possess the penetration potential of a similar sized HEAT round, but that is not needed to punch through the roof, and largely nullifies ERA same as a SABOT. If it does penetrate though, it has a higher damage potential, creating a larger breach, spalling and all the other nastiness created by a traditional KEP.

As far as in game, the considerations are, how does the 2-B currrently interact with ERA? It should be performing as any other solid AP shot. After that, it's penetration potential. Unless a TA munition's Pen value is divided, the 2-B should be a great deal less.

Now SP clearly must make approximations (both in direct and indirect ways). Simply wondering if as is, it is the best one for this system, and if it is both over & undercapable under different circumstances as a result.

[Marcello]

"So esentially the 2B is a dual charge warhead"

Not exactly.There are two warheads but it is not a multicharge, the two warheads point in different directions. The TOW-2B, or the BILL 2 for that matter, are not "top attack" in the same sense the Javelin is. They fly horizontally like like a conventional ATGM but instead of hitting the tank directly they overfly it.When the missile is above the target the warheads, which point towards the ground, are ignited. This is less complicated than a Javelin style approach.

[Smersh]

# T-72 - Original version, optical range-finder.

# T-72A - Added side skirts, additional armour, laser range-finder, electronic fire control system, smoke grenade launchers.

# T-72B - Thicker armour, composite armour in front of turret and front of hull. AT-11 "Svir" laser-guided antitank missile capability. Has the thickened frontal turret armor and is commonly known in the United States as the Dolly Parton.

# T-72AV, T-72BV - models with early Kontakt explosive reactive armour ("V" for vzryvnoi ‘explosive’).

# T-72B1 - T-72B without ATGM capability.

# T-72BK - Command version of T-72B, recognizable by having multiple radio antennas.

# T-72B(M) - T-72B equipped with advanced Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour, composite armour in sides of turret as well.

# T-72M - Soviet export version, similar to T-72A (built also in Poland and ex-Czechoslovakia).

# T-72M1 - Soviet export version, with thicker armour (built also in Poland and ex-Czechoslovakia).

[Marek_Tucan]

Just a note, T-72A and M1 got composite armour on turret, T-72M was basically cast-turret T-72 upgraded to T-72A/M1 standard in FC, ammo storage, smoke grenade launchers and side skirts (and LRF).
For example Czechoslovakia had:
T-72 - original Soviet supply, optical RF
T-72 - Czechoslovakian production, LRF
T-72M - see above
T-72M1 - as M, with comp. armor

Of course, lately also T-72M4CZ

[JaM]

Actually there were two versions of T-72A. First 1978 with standard glacis armor(330mm against KE) and 1983 with additional glacis armor (+16mm HHS = 400mm against KE). Same armor addon was used in T-72M1, So we can say that T-72A 1978 = T-72M, T72A 1983 = T-72M1

[Djuice]

According to certain sources Russian T-72A never received the 16mm HHS upgrade for their T-72A, but the ones in the their inventory were actually T-72M1, possibly stock that they couldn't sell.