The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Thread!

[sector24]

Unfortunately the existing tree lords are ... unappealing? Yeah, let's go with that. They're immobile, and they do not increase path diversity in any way. You already have to have an equal or higher level in nature magic to summon them and they don't even have a niche use in the game.

I think the fact that the roblon can move sets it apart, and if it granted an increase in path variety (nature into blood or death) it would fit the spirit of the thread, which is a greater diversity in endgame summons.

[Wrana]

One of existing Lords has Death iirc. Though I agree that they becoming immovable also made them quite unusable. Maybe the said roblon and/or something else added to the results list could make this spell somewhat useful...

[HoneyBadger]

The roblon sounds neat. Someone ought to do an Ivy Kings mod that has these types of treeish units in them. I'm a tree-hugger, so it would be great to have a nation for getting payback, that didn't involve anthropomorphized livestock

You'd think the treelords would be Entish? I'm surprised...or atleast, if they're stationary, uber defenders that, say, produced earth, nature, and death gems (one for each lord). Or maybe produced dryads?
I'm really digging this "factory unit" thing-ever since Insectoids mod came out.
Maybe one that makes dryads, one that makes vinemen, and one that makes dragonflies that you get to keep. Just a thought.

Maybe they could be moved forward a bit, in the summoning requirements, for those nations with a strong link to nature?

[Endoperez]

HoneyBadger said:
I'm really digging this "factory unit" thing-ever since Insectoids mod came out.
Maybe one that makes dryads, one that makes vinemen, and one that makes dragonflies that you get to keep. Just a thought.

Nature/Death: Manikins or Mandragora
Nature/Earth: Kithaironic Lions, Hama Dryads?
Nature: Vinemen, Vine Ogres

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, Manikins would be ok, for the death tree, but I don't see lions growing on trees...Hama dryads would work for the Earth tree though-although for Norse humor, the tree could summon a great eagle once a year, and squirrels in combat, and then transform into a dragon that leaves after combat, when slain.

As much as I like the factory unit idea...I don't think they should make extremely powerful units, except occasionally, or in special cases.

One of the things I really like about Dominions is taking something that is, essentially, thematic, and forging it into a working strategy anyway.

I admit that function is important, but remember that this would be on top of what those units already can do in the game.

For the nature tree, I definitely see dragonflies, but maybe the treelord summons pixie (atomie, actually) knights mounted on dragonflies in combat? They'd survive 1 attack that way, and do magical damage until they lost their 1 hp knight. I was going to use them for a Faerie Court modnation, but they'd work here too.

[JimMorrison]

Size 1 Pixie Knights, with a Lance bonus first strike, and 25 AP.

Aren't the Kithaironic Lions spiritual manifestations of..... something? They're not actually just cats, so it could be justified.

And even with real animals, free spawn isn't necessary about creation of units, but can be attraction as well, like with Maenads. Unless those Pans are laying "naked lady" eggs, in which case I'll take a dozen, please.

[Endoperez]

JimMorrison said:
Aren't the Kithaironic Lions spiritual manifestations of..... something? They're not actually just cats, so it could be justified.

Kithaironic refers to some mountain range in Greece, so Kithaironic Lion is a bit like "Greek mountain lion". It's based on the legend of the Nemedian Lion Herakles/Hercules slew, and its description just says that it's magical and has tough hide.

[TheMenacer]

I had an idea for a nation of plant monsters a while back that'd rely towards the endgame on immortal freespawn, justified because they'd be tiny little fungus monsters and mushrooms just being the fruiting bodies of the actual fungus (like flowers are to plants), they'd spread spores everywhere as they walked.

It'd be an interesting idea to run with I think, just legions of freespawn that can never actually be killed and because the ones that get killed pop back up alongside the ones that're being generated every turn they gradually build up to completely ridiculous levels.

At the very least it'd switch up the endgame summon being by necessity a single large combatant because while certainly an SC could smack an army of immortal chaff with an earthquake or something, it wouldn't really matter because even if its raids paid off and the opposing player managed to push deep into your dominion, eventually he'd run into a serious army of the little buggers and be completely overrun.

Naturally they'd have to be good enough in the first place to be capable of overrunning a properly outfitted SC in any number, but hey, that's why the things that spawn them would be late game summons.


[edit]
The more I think about this, the more I think it might be a pretty awesome idea. I'm thinking like a 4N1D (because fungi are agents of decay and all) or failing that, 6N summoned immobile commander that's just like a "Fungal Web" (which is what the actual body of any given fungus looks like, an underground web that soaks up nutrients). It can't do anything at all, but it freespawns little fungus monsters with like 8 health and otherwise average-to-slightly-below-average stats that also happen to be immortal. Possibly mindless to keep them from routing when they die in droves the way they're supposed to, but otherwise mundane. They'd have a claw attack or two, and maybe if you want to get fancy something really dramatic like the ability to shoot flesh eating spores all over stuff (simulated nicely by an entangle + poison effect). Plus, I think they'd be a pretty thematic endgame option for the nature path, given this idea of nature being slow, but ruthless and persistent, with anyone trying to root it out having to be really really thorough about it or it'll just pop right back up again.

Given mindlessness to withstand mass enslavement effects, and just barely enough health to take a rain of stones, I don't see why they wouldn't be perfectly viable late game options. Anyone with more experience than myself want to correct me?

[JimMorrison]

Dunno about immortal..... It could work, but immortal free spawns might be a bit much. Now, if there were a summons that took E gems, that could Summon Allies for more mid tier units..... And those mid tier units gained free spawns..... Maybe make the larger units immortal, since they resprout from the mycellium after being damaged severely. The freespawns aren't part of the main fungal mat, so they die. But It's hard to kill off the larger myconids, so they continue gaining huge numbers of free spawns as you push them back.

And of course, there could be a few different flavors, with different roles in combat, so there would be quite some strategy in what you summoned, and how you used your national summons. But if you had some of your best summons doing Summon Allies constantly, you could have an army of mini thugs to face the incoming SCs, and they would be backed by a flowing mass of chaff that is essentially mindless, 50 Morale to really test the stamina of the enemy.

[MaxWilson]

I see one potential problem, which is that hordes of freespawn in the endgame tend to slow down turn processing a lot. So say the LA Ermor and R'lyeh players anyway, I've no firsthand knowledge.

I don't have a huge problem with immortal freespawn. Immortality is nice thematically, but is 1.) vulnerable to dominion push, and 2.) requires mobility to really take advantage of. If you kill a freespawn 6 provinces away from the capital, it probably stays hors de combat for 6 turns or so (depending on terrain). It would be not at all impossible to fight them, so as long as it's thematic I think it's fine.

-Max