OT: Starcraft II and Elemental

[Zeldor]

They have huge beta group. If they were able to use any help, it'd be totally enough. There are sever bugs that can be found withint 10 minutes. Still present after 4 or 5 patches.

[Torin]

"wielding graphics that would look right at home in a Dire Straits video"

thats a good explanation of some of the characters graphics in this review
http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3181116&p=1

But to be fair. Apart from these card graphics that look atrocious. The rest of the game looks awesome graphicwise.
Most of the bad is the bad timing on the animations. The cavalry animation is buggy, long after it finished moving it stalls making you wait for several seconds. there is no standard in timing for animations.

[WraithLord]

I think SD are making terrible marketial mistakes and are rapidly burning that most important, yet ellusive, coin - their good reputation.

For me personally it's a done deal, any expectations I might have had from SD to release fun TBS games are now completely gone. I gave SD a lot of credit, mainly b/c TBS games are so rare these days and b/c the high praise gamespot reviews gave them.

So I tried, I really did to like the GalCiv series but DonC has put it well, it's just lacking sou/fun/"magic" - you name it.

So, after years of lurking on MOM2 sites I read this exciting news that SD and Atari are negotiating for SD to do a sequel to MOM. From that point of excitment it was a down hill journey: first that deal blew off, so instead of a real sequel SD was doing a "spiritual" successor to MOM.
Still, could be great, but, as time goes by I notice that SD devs don't have a clear concept of how they want their game to be like. I follow their forums, their devs diaries and the fan comments and it all translates to a sinking feeling. No, they won't do PBEM, no they won't take great concepts from AoW/Dom, no-no: they want to do their own game - albeit they still haven't decided what exactly they want in and how the economy, military, combat and spell systems would all bind together to work seemlesly and smoothly. That was my feeling but I tried to tell myself I'm probably exaggerating. Luckily I didn't preorder.

I hope there will one day be reall sequel to MOM2, AoW SM & Dominions 3. Or that a good FTBS game would come along.
As of now, FTBS genre seems to be withering. Good titles are hard to come by and are growing ever more scarce.

[Foodstamp]

Wraithlord,

I don't know about you, but to me it feels like the game still has 6+ months of beta before it should be released. Brad made a money decision to get the game on the Walmart shelves, reputation be damned.

[WraithLord]

Yes, 6+ months for beta, consolidation of game mechanisms and openess to none-fanboys comments re. how to make the game have more flavor, pace better etc. Sadley, the attitude SD exibited so far doesn't paint them as being very open to critisicm.

Oh, and of course they need to add real MP to the game. MP at the mercy of SD server's is not something I'd look forward to.

[Meglobob]

Thankfully, I didn't pre-order Elemental (I didn't want to get involved in beta testing) and I am unlikely to buy Elemental any time soon.

I personally love Galactic Civilizations and bought GC 1, GC2 and all the expansions. Also I have bought several games which I am happy with via there impluse platform. So Stardock have alot of goodwill from me, however Elemental and how Stardock have handled it is a diaster and will no doubt cost them alot of goodwill in the future. I know I would never pre-order a Stardock game but wait for the magazine reviews/demo before parting with my money.

There website is very, very scary place to visit, its full of fanboys who stomp on any critisim of the game or any reasonable discussion. If those were the type of players who were giving them there beta feedback, then its no wander it has resulted in what is currently a very, 'average' game.

The demo will be out in September, so I will try that and see what I think, I may still buy Elemental but only if Stardock continues its development and turns it into at least a 'good' game. It could very well be the 1st expansion before this is the case.

[ioticus]

I emailed Stardock for a refund which is what I think we should all do to send a message that we won't put up with their paid beta tactics.

[Zeldor]

Yep, I think the correct address is sales@stardock.com

I've heard that Bradell posted that everyone unhappy with the game can ask for refund. Everyone should do it and then pick it from $2 bin at walmart.

[onomastikon]

Originally Posted by Meglobob

There website is very, very scary place to visit, its full of fanboys who stomp on any critisim of the game or any reasonable discussion. If those were the type of players who were giving them there beta feedback, then its no wander it has resulted in what is currently a very, 'average' game.

In all fairness, while "their" website does indeed contain a large number of rampant, vociferous fanboys, "it's" not terribly different from most game websites throughout the world. Sometimes I also "wonder" about the degree of harshness with which those who offer constructive criticism of Dominions are treated here on this website.

What's true is that Brad -- not unlike Johan et al. -- feels that he will and can end up doing his thing, no matter what, and that gives him a certain degree of immunity to criticism. Like Johan et al., Brad has a "real life" in a slightly different context, albeit one that is not quite so different than that a game developer as a schoolteacher is (he runs a software company which also happens to have a small gaming branch); while he has resources and gets paid for Elemental, his bread and butter is elsewhere (various Windows applications), allowing him to create a niche product, if he so wishes. For reasons much like these, the creators of Dominions 3 are also able to say, with a certain degree of reassurance, that if someone doesn't like what they are doing, then they might as well stay away. Unlike the creators of Dom3, however, whose main target group consist of people posting here (in other words, a small, vociferous, fiercly loyal (it seems to me sometimes to the point of being blind), frequently rampant fanbase) -- in other words, the nerds here like you and me --, the creators of Elemental simultaneously wish to be mainstream and reach a much larger target group. I think that is greatly inconsistent and self-contradictory, and I am currently writing a useless, somewhat acerbic post full of well-formulated rantings on their website, mostly because I still suffer from the common delusion that things people write on sites like these will be viewed with patience and goodwill and may even change things in the world. Look for my post there soon. Ah excuse me sidetracked.

I too was a member of the beta "team", and Megablob is more correct than he knows. What he doesn't know: We never actually tested the game. Never. We tested parts of it, but what you can purchase now was never played by a human being outside the laboratories of Stardock, and by them only minimally (by their own admission), before reaching your shelves. You read it here first. Ah excuse me again.

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by onomastikon

In all fairness, while "their" website does indeed contain a large number of rampant, vociferous fanboys, "it's" not terribly different from most game websites throughout the world. Sometimes I also "wonder" about the degree of harshness with which those who offer constructive criticism of Dominions are treated here on this website.

Care to share some examples before making a statement like this?

Originally Posted by onomastikon

What's true is that Brad -- not unlike Johan et al. -- feels that he will and can end up doing his thing, no matter what, and that gives him a certain degree of immunity to criticism. Like Johan et al., Brad has a "real life" in a slightly different context, albeit one that is not quite so different than that a game developer as a schoolteacher is (he runs a software company which also happens to have a small gaming branch); while he has resources and gets paid for Elemental, his bread and butter is elsewhere (various Windows applications), allowing him to create a niche product, if he so wishes. For reasons much like these, the creators of Dominions 3 are also able to say, with a certain degree of reassurance, that if someone doesn't like what they are doing, then they might as well stay away. Unlike the creators of Dom3, however, whose main target group consist of people posting here (in other words, a small, vociferous, fiercly loyal (it seems to me sometimes to the point of being blind), frequently rampant fanbase) -- in other words, the nerds here like you and me --, the creators of Elemental simultaneously wish to be mainstream and reach a much larger target group. I think that is greatly inconsistent and self-contradictory, and I am currently writing a useless, somewhat acerbic post full of well-formulated rantings on their website, mostly because I still suffer from the common delusion that things people write on sites like these will be viewed with patience and goodwill and may even change things in the world. Look for my post there soon. Ah excuse me sidetracked.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I disagree with the comparison you drew. I am following IW for many years now and I personally witnessed their attitude to critisism. I think they are more open than SD are and certainly less condesending (IMHO)

Originally Posted by onomastikon

I too was a member of the beta "team", and Megablob is more correct than he knows. What he doesn't know: We never actually tested the game. Never. We tested parts of it, but what you can purchase now was never played by a human being outside the laboratories of Stardock, and by them only minimally (by their own admission), before reaching your shelves. You read it here first. Ah excuse me again.

Unbelieveable. Not even the devs played the game. Do they even like what they created?