APC Development and related topics.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

1. BRADLEY BUSK III...

If you missed it in the first refs provided earlier, you'll have noticed the first units equipped with them were in S. Korea. Don unless you see something I missed, it appears USA UNITS 305 & 899 will just need to be renamed, protection upgraded and require a new icon for one or both units and I hear you that's enough work!?!Regards,
Pat

??? Pat... why would unit 305 be involved with this at all ?


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Simply misinterpreted Johns post in the USA OOB Thread. I thought he mentioned both units were improved with TI/GSR 50 as a "side bar" to his core issue. So in the near term, only USA UNIT 899 will need to be changed. However remember I believe initially 250-285 units were converted with the BUSK III pkg. All others are to follow but don't remember when that deadline was, except it is in the "near term". I already have info that the BRADLEY A3 will be converted (Like earlier mods.) to carry more troops. This is due to budget issues and delays in the GCV Program. So there's another slot down the road and toilet. As I've mentioned already in various posts basically is..."The new will be the old/current types modified" i.e. T-90 something anybody!?! Sorry for delay.

Added edit... These two refs combined provide an overview of the BUSK III pkg. First ref just scroll down to BUSK. Next ref was the one posted earlier for the picture and mentions BUSK III fixes not mentioned in Ref 1. None mentioned the add on armor in the picture of Ref. 2, and nor have I seen that add on armor configuration in earlier models, similiar yes, but this is something different I believe at least in coverage of the hull if nothing else. Don't you hate it when I get tired? I hear you, one more to go, so again good night.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bradley/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_...t_1007126.html

Good Night and have a great weekend everyone!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Unit 898 and 899......

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

While getting the pictures for the ADF M1A1 AIM SA, I noticed along with the exercise they were in were a bunch of pictures of the M113AS4 the current M113 variant being used by the ADF. Curious about the AUSCAM(O) for them and remembering that I thought I had submitted it in the "old" format of "Hey here's a piece of equipment not in the game, it'd normally have it's own post and Don would get it in the game (See this Thread Pg. 5 Post #45 dated 5/21/2010 if you want.) that being said it got by us and it wasn't until later that year I started to use the current format and realized I missed it again after I checked the AUS OOB last night. So Ref. 1 shows an article where the last M113A1 chassis variants were used in their final live fire exercise in JUN 2010. I have not been able to identify the type pictured in the article though it says they were the last unit to operate them in the exercise.
http://digital.realviewtechnologies....ge=page0000030

As for M113AS4 it was developed under the Land 106 Program that started in 1992 and would be completed with the final delivery of the M113AS4 by DEC 2012. The first 4 units would be delivered on NOV 15, 2007 and the ADF (7th Batt.) would get 16 by the end of that year being fully operational.
So I'm thinking JAN. 2008 start date for them.
Ref. 2 covers this in detail as the DID site normally would. Ref. 3 was the original one I used from the first para. Highlights of the M113AS4 are...
Firepower: A new Australian designed and built electrical turret, with improvements designed to lessen the battering its occupant takes. It will host a new .50 caliber weapon that sports a quick change barrel and day/night sights.

Protection: Add-on external armor kits to protect against weapons up to 14.5mm; internal spall liners; hull reinforcement to improve mine protection; fuel tanks moved from inside to outside. The change in configuration also allowed the introduction of stealth characteristics into the design by decreasing the overall turret profile, and reducing the vehicle’s radar cross-section and infra-red signature.
It should be noted that a 14.5mm would make Swiss Cheese of normal M113 or at the very least hurt badly. -FBT

Internal: Compartment improvements like heat mitigation measures and better stowage of equipment externally where it isn't so much in the way. New electrical and fuel systems; a land navigation system that combines GPS and INS.
All above from DID.

Types looking to add in AUSCAM are...
Armoured Personnel Carrier (M113-AS4 APC). Most common variant.
Armoured Command Vehicle (M113-AS4 ACV) (?)
Armoured Logistic Vehicle (M113-AS4 ALV) Ordnance Carrier.
Armoured Mortar (M125-AS3 AM)
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...pgrades-05133/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/m113as4.htm

Well my times up, reminder is done and will end with pics:




Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Pat..... note that the reports clearly say ( i have added the emphasis.....)

Vehicle's hull provides protection against up to 14.5-mm rounds.

From the way it's worded I would conclude it DOES NOT protect against 14.5mm rounds since it only protects " up to " 14.5mm

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I think this is where I say OOPS! So this should have the protection of a USA M113A3 then as I believe it had spall liners as well. The only added benefit I see then is the values you give towards survivability in mine protection and the fact the fuel storage is now external. Also these are "stretch" M113 versions, if you haven't noticed before this, note the extra road wheel set. Got more ADF pictures to consider for the type as follows...




In the upper left picture note the name the crew gave it-that's pride and balls (baseball, football etc. for clarification.) considering the ADF expects this type to be in the fight.

Thanks again Don, I guess the "up to and to include" would've been better from my perspective!?!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by sabresandy

Thanks for the information! It's nice to find a clearinghouse for the news from the defense industry.

I'd like to bring up some issues with the Russian APCs and IFVs in their OBAT, which is obat11. Patch 7.0 did a nice job of trimming out some of the cancelled BTR-90 variants; I'd like to take it a few steps further. First, let's look at the many MT-LB mods. Specifically, OBAT11 numbers 213 (MT-LBM-6M1A3), 332 (MT-LBM-6M1B2), 800 (MT-LBM-6MA), 801 (MT-LBM-6MB), and for that matter 872 (MT-LBM). To the best of my knowledge, these vehicles showed up once at an arms expo, and were promptly never heard from again. I find no reports of any of the MT-LB modifications actually coming into service.

Likewise, there are a number of programs that never seem to have taken off: they are units number 305 (BTR-70M), 787 (BMP-2 Berezhok), 788 (BMP-2M), 850 (BMP-2M (-)), and the heavy APCs 343-345 (all the BTR-Ts). While I believe the BMP-T is on order by the Russian army, I find no indication that the BTR-T is actually being produced. The rest, the BMP and BTR modification programs, appear to exist only in advertisements; the Russians don't look like they've bought off on them.

Pending confirmation, so far as it's possible with Russian military equipment, I think it's fair to delete all of these from the OBAT for Russia and for the RED force (wherever they overlap).

I am still digging into this and some details are clear and others .....not so clear but I DO find references to the BTR-70M.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...res_video.html

indicates that vehicle exists

BTR-70M: Modernized version with turret, diesel engine and rear hull section of the BTR-80.

The BTR-T though does seem to be a concept no one has wanted. The best I could find was........" state-run production association developed and manufactured a prototype of the BTR-T"

I am happy to remove things especially in that OOB as there aren't a lot of free spaces left for legitimate additions but I'm hesitant to rip things out without digging further..especially things like the BTR-70M


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The BTR-T is shown below...
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_t.htm
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1021.html
Now that there's some info for others to look at...The concept was developed in ~1997 based on the need that arose from the Checeyan campaign where Russias weaknesses were exposed in the APC/IFV vehicles used at the time. Prototypes were built, but as ref 1 above shows the "Entered Service" block is blank for a reason from this primarly Russian source. Isreal also ran a similiar development program at about the same time and I believe so did the Ukraine. Companies are still ofering this conversion as it is estimated there are as many as a 100,000 T-55
tanks world wide which of course includes foriegn manufactured ones as well. Russia would look into the concept with the T-72 and T-90 hulls as well but these were never fielded ethier. However as I've posted already, you will see or there are plans to have an IFV based on the ARMATA tank. These will be designed and built from the ground up though as opposed to being a modification.

The BTR-70M RUNNING OUT OF TIME but...
Russia has them basically added 4 smoke dischagers per side, has a single engine from the BTR-80 vice two GAZ ones as you've noted. Ref is proof of life for the type. Aberbyzan (Sorry for spelling.) ordered modified ones (130) using South African turret/FCS. If you need more I'll give it to you later-I need some sleep.
http://en.ria.ru/video/20110926/167136762.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

BTR-70M...
There are so many mods out there it'll make your head spin!! They gotem. Ref 1 added because he's very through especially dealing with "hard to find" items. I've crossed referenced different equipment issues many times against his info with no problems over the years.
http://www.pmulcahy.com/wheeled_apcs...eeled_apcs.htm
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/produc...18&printmode=1
http://www.minotor-service.com/en/bt...0m-a1-apc.html
http://international-defence-review....ri-armour.html
http://www.afv-news.com/2012/10/btr-70-apc/

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Thanks Pat. Be aware you have to be very careful with Pmulcahy info. Some of it is solid but some of it is aimed at "Twilight 2000 " " a role-playing game set in the aftermath of World War III "