Allegiances 2 (Large,Team-Based Game, PLAYING)

[Velusion]

I managed to recover the pretender files - so we are good to go now. Sorry about the delay.

Good luck everyone!

[DrPraetorious]

I know that black position *looks* cramped, but count provinces. You've got as much room to expand as anyone except Red and Magenta (who got more room, according to the computer), and Cyan (who actually is cramped).

By my math, you should *easily* claim 30 provinces. The map is 239 land provinces and there are 7 teams total; so an average share would be 33 provinces, so if you can manage to grab 3 provinces which are in-contention you're doing averagely well. What's the issue?

Now, it *is* a concern that the two of you may not be able to attack the same opponent at the same time. For this reason, I'm worried about the black position being kinda screwed. But not due to cramping.

[Janlm]

what, did we have a turn already?

[archaeolept]

cramping has to do w/ expansion, w/ getting out of an area. black has that in spades, especially the south. there is no other nation w/ a start like it. It is different from everyone else on the face of it - such a situation should red raise flags w/ someone trying to create a balanced start. an exit 2 wide? sorry who else has that? its completely buggered - and then I am directly against two enemies, and cannot bring my own ally to bear? I am flabbergasted that this was set up as it was. 2 against 1? wtf? My desire to engage in a hincked game is rather low.

I offered to exchange starts w/ any other teams. its no surprise no one expressed even theoretical interest in this.

cramping has to do w/ the lack of possibilities of movement out of my area. no one else has anything even remotely similar. In a random map start, that's the way the cookie crumbles, but when start positions were determined by hand, its pretty shocking, as the position is self-evidently different from anyone else's. And having fewer options in how to expand or fight a war is always detrimental. geography is destiny, and my unavoidable destiny is to be curbstombed by having to go one against two head-on. There is no other way this game can go, come turn 16.

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, so by "expansion", you mean expansion-into-other-players. I call that "conquest" - you've got the same amount of room for initial expansion as every other team.

That two province width of your borders makes it easy for either side to claim chokepoints. That does tend to favor the defender, making expansion yeah difficult, which I thought would be desirable for the person stuck in the middle of 3. Didn't know it would go to Helheim, obviously.

So, yeah, the borders between Black and the other positions are different from all the other borders (more constricted, staggered), and the black position is different from all the other positions in that the two capitals are not equidistant to their neighbors. However, you'll note that they are staggered - it is possible for the two of you to fight on the same border, you just need to walk an extra province or two.

Consider the situation Green is in - both of you have easy access to the western Green start, but eastern green has a lot of trouble reaching you. Eastern blue is not quite as cut off, but it's a similar situation.

With a little diplomacy and planning, you can fight either of your neighbors 2 on 1, with each of you taking a single province route.

Myself, I'd much rather have a short border than a long one, so, in fact, I did this to you *on purpose* because I thought it would compensate for the nature of your start. I agree that your position is challenging, but so are:
1) Green is next to Red (who is Niefelheim!), who has a corner. Sucks to be him.
2) Magents and Blue both effectively have three neighbors, instead of 2.
3) Cyan is extremely constricted for pre-war expansion.

None of them are complaining.

I tried doing this with several maps and this is the one that worked out best. There were additional fairness issues when I tried to make the map larger, as well - it was very difficult to avoid giving one nation or another sole posession of a large hinterland into which they could then expand unchecked.

Also 7 is a very difficult number to tile - there's no way to arrange 7, except in an absolute ring - without putting somebody in the middle of a group of 3.

You have about 1/7 of the map, and you have two neighbors, just like everyone else. Your borders are a little odd, and swapping start locations would require *restarting the game*, is probably part of why no-one else has even expressed interest in your offer.

[Folket]

Hmm... I seem to have three the empty spot in my capital. Never seen such before.

[Velusion]

Folket said:
Hmm... I seem to have three the empty spot in my capital. Never seen such before.

I think it was added by DrP so that site searching spells will work when automated. This way it skips over your capital.

[Velusion]

Here is the deal:

DO NOT CONNECT TO THIS SERVER WITH THE 3.10 PATCH.

I will post here when the game is updated and you can connect with the new patch.

I will upgrade all the games on my server at once. The timer will be be taken off all the games and I will manually upgrade and host all of my games Wed (tomorrow) at about 10pm. Please do all your turns with the old patch (3.08)

Until the upgrade of the server please continue to use the old 3.08 patch.

Thanks!

[Micah]

Is there any interest in restarting so we can get the new 1.10 magic sites into the game? I wouldn't mind waiting one more day to get the game rolling so we can check out the new content, but obviously Vel would be the one doing the extra work, so it's not my call, just thought I'd ask.

[Evilhomer]

Restarting the game with the new patch since we are on turn 1 seems a good idea.