MBT's

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I'm simply going to say-WELCOME BACK STRANGER!!

May the "debate games" begin again!?!

Just glad my "Marine Buddy" is back.

Regards,
Pat

Ah......yeah. This is like seeing a ghost. We thought we'd lost you. Sent PM emails no response..welcome back!



Don

[Suhiir]

Sent you a PM Don.

Without getting into details I've spent the last four months dealing with medical issues and at an "Assisted Care" facility thus no access to the internet.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The next refs. deal with the ABRAMS and couple of "outliners"; I'll provide a couple of "quick takes" as I've got an Anniversary trip to go on in the morning for a few days. 36 years ABSOULUTLING WONDERFUL.

First modernized armored USA Brigade is fully equipped.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rnization.html

Quick takes:
"The modernization process that began with divesting the older vehicle platforms in the spring of 2021 as part of the Army’s new Regionally Aligned Readiness and Modernization Model, or ReARMM."

Last Company just finished final quals at Ft. Stewart Ga. (Just up the road from me ~1.5 hrs.)

Brigade fully equipped with M1A2C/M2A4 BRADLEY/Modernizations completed/AMPV w/Final Operational & Evaluation completed.

Further equipped with JLTV, M109A7 PALADAN and Joint Assault Bridge.

Next stop NTC Fort Irwin, California, in late winter next year. Proof of concept and more.

Do not base fielding dates off the above. NTC will be the next and possibly final step towards that goal-maybe.

The next two concerns the M1A2D and ABRAMSX THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE TANK. these are here to chart the future path we're taking.

Simply put "The Rumors of My Death Have Been Greatly Exaggerated" in other words heavy armor isn't going away anytime soon.

From the article...
"To summarize, the Abrams M1A2 SEPv4 includes:
- An improved Gunner’s Primary Sight (GPS) with 3rd Generation Forward Looking Infrared (3GEN FLIR), an Improved Laser Range Finder (LRF), and Color Camera
- An improved Commander’s primary sight with 3GEN FLIR, an improved LRF, laser pointer, and color camera
- Improved lethality by providing the ability for the fire control system to digitally communicate with the new Advanced Multi-Purpose (AMP) Round
- Improved firing accuracy through the installation of a Meteorological Sensor
- Improved onboard diagnostics"

Testing has started at the Aberdeen Proving ground.

From our point of view that means TI/GSR 65-70 game limited AT A MINIUM.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ng_ground.html

GDLS has a new demonstrator the ABRAMSX. This will be of a new design with very new...Armor, 120mm w/coax, ammo MRM round, ROW 30mm w/MG, FCS etc. etc. TI/GSR 70-75+ game limited AT A MINIUM.

LOOKS GOOD!
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...onstrator.html

As they noted the following hasn't been confirmed. But makes sense therefore this is a real possibility once read through.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...sian_army.html

The German/French (Maybe UK.) EMBT it's worth a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk8u47JbYho

You have to admit the Europeans make tanks like they make their sports cars.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Well the last Abrams is gone from the USMC inventory (including those in depots and pre-loaded cargo ships) so starting around mid 2021 if you want tanks use the "Allies" button when purchasing formations and buy Army!

Since they first mounted TOW ATGMs on AH-1s the USMC has seen the tank primarily as an infantry support asset and ATGM armed helos/ground troops as the primary anti-armor asset. With the climbing mass of the modernized Abrams it's been a problem getting them to the beach. The LCAC has a cargo capacity of 60 tons (75 overloaded), and an LST is not a viable assault landing transport.

A plausible answer suitable to the Force Design 2030 concept would be the Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) Light Tank Program, two competing tank contenders armed with a 105mm cannon. BAE System’s® M8 Armored Gun System and General Dynamics Land Systems’ “Griffin” weigh in at around 30-35-tons with add-on armor. Two basic 30-ton 105mm MPFs can ride on a LCAC and two MPFs with add-on armor (35-tons) might be able to ride on an SSC. With Active Protection Systems and Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA) additions installed, the MPF, in theory, should have adequate protection levels up to the U.S. Army’s M2A3 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle, with an all-around armor rating against 30mm Armor-Piercing rounds, and active protection against Anti-tank missiles and rockets that the M1A2 SEPv3 with Trophy APS has. A MPF’s 105mm tank cannon might not be powerful enough to penetrate the latest frontal armor of MBTs, but it should be capable of providing direct fire support against bunkers, pillboxes, fortifications, and light to medium armored vehicles in support of advancing Marines.

We'll just have to see what happens in the future.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The following is to build upon Post 1416 in this thread.

I have to assume there are some folks "are concerned" possibly about the numbers of Russian armor captured and repurposed by the Ukraine.

I have never purposely have single sourced any equipment or news out here even if the "backup" is WiKi something which has occurred less than a handful of times and always in consultation with Don when it arises.
So here's some corroboration to the ORYX data which was current the day I posted it.

[b]From July 17, 2022 Data current to June 26, 2022
https://armyrecognition.com/ukraine_...nian_army.html

From Oct. 8, 2022
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russian...-putin-1750115

From same date Note UK MOD Tweet.
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-719172

From Oct. 9, 2022
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/ukra...ks-fleet-size/

This should be enough.

Don I've been looking at this for sometime now.

My concerns were are they getting enough armor to put them into the fight? That has now been fully answered.

Who else is looking at the ORYX Data are are coming up with at least about the same total numbers as ORYX is showing and remember they update that data daily as the evidence allows. The above refs show some "heavy lifters" are processing the data as well by loking at ORYX data and generating their own data.

Remember I mentioned in Post 1416 that you needed to read Para 1, that's because ORYX has used photo or video shots to verify the condition of all the equipment listed on that data sheet.

For Don again I WILL HAVE A COMPLETE LIST OF RUSSIAN CAPTURED/REPURPOSED ARMOR TO YOU WITHIN 2 WEEKS. You know where that'll be posted. I have no intention at his point after a "cursory" check of the SOVIET Era equipment listed to have any of them listed because 1. I haven't seen anything that really stands out to me and; 2. The Ukraine certainly has enough Soviet Era equipment already.

Back to the Vacation the weather is absolutely fantastic. Nothing better than sleeping when the overnight temps are in the 30's!!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I've been watching this for awhile now and today the contract was signed between Rheinmetall and the Czech (Republic) government. The deal as I recall was for 14 LEOPARD 2A4 tanks and 1 BUFFEL ARV.

This is part of the German Program taken from the below ref...
"The “Ringtausch” is a procedure developed by the German government in cooperation with Germany’s neighbours and NATO allies to support Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression. Specifically, NATO member states are providing Ukraine with Soviet-era heavy equipment in exchange for readily available Western military systems."

This is "payback" for T-72's the Czech government sent the Ukraine.

The above package will include training, maintenance, parts and ammo.

Some these (Maybe all.) tanks will come from former foreign country users. They will be updated.

FOR NOW, and unless something is released as to the extent of those upgrades; my thinking is it'll at least be to the latest standard the BUNDESWEHR fielded before they were retired.

The first unit (A tank.) is expected sometime in Dec. 2022.

The order will be fully be completed by LATE 2023.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...uffel_arv.html

Wonderful things always happen on our Anniversary!?!

Regards,
Pat

[Karagin]

I wonder when NATO or the EU will just adopt the Leopard as the standard tank for all countries in the EU...everyone but France and England, and Italy seems to have them now.

[blazejos]

Czech newest modernisation T-72 Avenger is also send to Ukraine now thanks to peoples fundraising. This tank is a modernisation of T-72M1 of Czech production and have nickname Tomáš

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...hoto-4618.html

And here article from Politico about perspectives in near future of acquiring modern western tanks for Ukraine. In article is also mentioned about production and maintenance.

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...stry-4654.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...BhW1TfBMNpEToA

[blazejos]

And now M-55S from Slovenia are also sent on eastern front

This tank is probably the best so far modernisation of classical T-55

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...aine-4691.html

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/slovenia-s...5s-to-ukraine/

before they send their ex yougoslavian M-80 APC
https://mil.in.ua/uk/news/vijskovi-u...vid-sloveniyi/

[DRG]

One opinion about that tank.........

The Actual Worst Tank? M-55S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO8q-sWiHSE

One comment..........."The m55-s was retired before it entered service... it actually was just in the reserve its entire life ... i drove one and to be fair in the 90s it seemed like a good idea since Slovenia didnt really have any other weapons to counter another Yugo attack"


We might find out how they work out in combat

Now all Ukraine needs for them is a supply of 105 rifled ammo though there is probably LOTS tucked away in warehouses

This'll do the trick