HINNOM EATS EVERYTHING - Page 15

MaxWilson · #**141** July 31st, 2008, 05:33 PM

So it's because all the poison hits the same giant, thus negating the high-HP advantage (3x HP, 3x the poison arrows)? Hmmm, okay, that's plausible.

-Max

JimMorrison · #**142** July 31st, 2008, 05:50 PM

Precisely. You get 100 Androphag Archers in one place (not entirely hard to do, only 6 resources apiece) and you need a LOT of giants, or a LOT of chaff to be able to get them before you take some painful losses.

Now, you could always go 8N-10N on your Hinnom bless. Not sure if that is considered optimal from other considerations, but if you regen 10/turn or something, then those poison arrows really need to work hard to overcome that.

Ming · #**143** July 31st, 2008, 08:11 PM

I wasn't thinking about the poison archers actually when I made my comment.

Hinnom has ready access to poison ward (Ench4) which would protect it from the poison arrows.

I was thinking of the likes of Oiorpata. They are only slight;y worse than a Van but cost 50G. Fortunately (for other nations) both poison archers and oiorpata are capital only, forcing the Sauromatia player to make a "hard" choice. The Warrior Queen could also cause Hinnom problems and is recruitable everywhere. It is against these troops that Hinnom might find its chariots useful.

Even though I believe that Sauromatia is Hinnom's #1 threat, I believe Hinnom as it stands would still have an edge against Sauromatia (but I could be wrong). The picture might be different if Hinnom's starting army and PD is nerfed.

konming · #**144** July 31st, 2008, 08:19 PM

Pison archer/hydra combo is painful, esp. with a few poison immune warrior socceress mixed in.

Baalz · #**145** July 31st, 2008, 08:22 PM

Heh, no, there's no way androphag archers are a big threat to Hinnom for one reason - they've got recruitable SCs with easy poison immunity. Maybe you'll blunt the first attack, but at the point they start being a real annoyance Hinnom will just teleport a poison immune Ba'al (after perhaps stalling a bit for the research) in on any concentration of androphags. Or they can cast arrow fend. Or catch you with a hasted chariot charge squishing straight through to the archers. Hinnom has a *whole* lot of flexibility - don't count on them marching straight towards you with stuff that didn't work in the last fight.

JimMorrison · #**146** July 31st, 2008, 08:24 PM

O.o I never really saw Oiorpata as worthy of a big bless (partly because of cap only). Is it mostly due to the obscenely large charge attack they can get off once in the battle if you W9 them? Seems like it would be easy enough to have a screen of lance breakers in front of your actual giants, if you knew who your opponent was. It's much harder to effectively protect yourself from 100 Androphag Archers.

Ming · #**147** July 31st, 2008, 08:36 PM

JimMorrison,

A strong bless would benefit non-capital leaders as well as capital-only troops, making it worthy of consideration.

Baalz,

I think a Hinnom-Sauromatia match-up would be very interesting, as both nations have many options (but Hinnom has more) and they need to keep shifting and second-guessing the other player. However, Sauromatia has a weaker start which could prove decisive.

konming · #**148** July 31st, 2008, 08:40 PM

I think all these things are concerned with early game. Sauromatian has many tricks early, hydra/poison archer, blessed sacred, skelly spam. But when const and alt catch up, Hinnom's SCs will beat Sauromatian quite soundly.

Ming · #**149** July 31st, 2008, 08:48 PM

Konming,

No disagreement here. Hinnom is strong early, mid, and late game.

chrispedersen · #**150** July 31st, 2008, 09:44 PM

Gentlemen,

A few comments. You are not taking into economics.
Hinnom units are expensive in gold and resources. Hinnom *needs* to start off (in my opinion) with something like a
+3 +3 +3 +(x) -(y) and +z.

With your heavy units costing from 75/29 to something like 150/88 - you will be building something like *3* chariots the first turn- or possibly 3 dawn guards.

Typically you will be building 1-2 more units on the second turn.

Sauromatia has the same dumps as you do - plus he can afford to dump on production.

Ignoring starting forces, for a moment, and just look at turn production.

Which wins: 3 chariots or 1 hydra and some archers?
3 dawn guard or 6 Oirpata?

So on a turn by turn production Sauromatia takes hinnom. Even with even blesses, which shouldn't be the case due to design costs.

Sauromatia has a window of opportunity which lasts pretty well into the early game.