What did I missed from Dom I.? -> DIPLOMACY! - Page 15

Gandalf Parker · #**141** October 17th, 2003, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MStavros:
What other abuse you know about? I have no idea about other ways to abuse the AI.

Dominions became the target of my hacking attitude early on. While others pursued each other up thru the chains of good-better-best strategys I took the discarded items and experimented to try and find a use for them. Early on in Dom you could only send things to human players. I was one of the people who pushed to have it changed. Ive usedit ever since with the poor AIs.

I sent gas-bladder sticks and cursing daggers and exploding amulets to nations that had too powerful commanders. I sent food cauldrons and herald lances to nations there were next to ermor. I sent air gems to caelum and nature gems to man when I played nations not susceptable to "call of the xxxx" attacks so that they would pester others. I basically supported whatever races with whatever items I felt my race would have no problem with when I finally had to confront them.

These arent necessarily abuses but if it becomes an automatically good thing to do then it would need fixed.

Mortifer · #**142** October 17th, 2003, 10:14 PM

Some items should flagged as 'can be traded', that way this abuse is no more.
Or just do not allow to trade items like exploding amulets.

I think that seeking the aid of the AI to attack another nation is ok. That is how it is supposed to work.
Just take a look at the medieval/dark ages. This happened a lot.

[ October 17, 2003, 21:14: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Gandalf Parker · #**143** October 17th, 2003, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mortifer:
Some items should flagged as 'can be traded', that way this abuse is no more.
Or just do not allow to trade items like exploding amulets.

That could grow to an extreme database. And probably just lead to more creative acts. Alot of the items would be variable also. What is a good thing for abyssia could be a bad thing for caelum.

In my earlier scales I made an item trade to be a minor-good thing while gold or gems was worth more. To be entirely safe, trading items might be worth nothing or not even allowed. Maybe take it back to only allowing for human players or having AI's automatically destroy any item they are traded.

Taqwus · #**144** October 17th, 2003, 10:52 PM

Plus, whether or not an item would be useful is situation-dependent. For instance, if Man's making heavy use of longbowmen, then he probably does not want to field a Staff of Storms. Bone armor, or others with harmful area effects, can be useful... but not on a commander who's constantly surrounded by friendlies. Robes of Missile Protection are weak, weak armor if you're not going to be using archers...

Mortifer · #**145** October 17th, 2003, 11:00 PM

Yeah, that is true. Hrm maybe trading items shouldn't be allowed at all?
Or just limit it? Let's say only 'common'** items should be traded, like a flaming sword, etc.

**Items what won't cause any trouble 'abusing wise'.

[ October 17, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Gandalf Parker · #**146** October 18th, 2003, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mortifer:
Yeah, that is true. Hrm maybe trading items shouldn't be allowed at all?
Or just limit it? Let's say only 'common'** items should be traded, like a flaming sword, etc.

**Items what won't cause any trouble 'abusing wise'.

I think that would be more trouble than its worth. I dont mean to seem bragging or anything but I can almost gaurantee you that if your list infludes a couple of dozen items I will find one that I can abuse.

Just for an example.... there are some armor items that would be great for pangaea but sending them to ulm would cause ulm to downgrade his commanders. Some swords also.

Zerger · #**147** October 18th, 2003, 09:03 AM

Yeah, I think that trading items is a bad idea.
Sending gold, gems, or transferring provinces is enough.
Those cannot be abused. + The devs won't have to mess around with 2000 items.

Nerfix · #**148** October 18th, 2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:
Originally posted by Mortifer:
Yeah, that is true. Hrm maybe trading items shouldn't be allowed at all?
Or just limit it? Let's say only 'common'** items should be traded, like a flaming sword, etc.

**Items what won't cause any trouble 'abusing wise'.

I think that would be more trouble than its worth. I dont mean to seem bragging or anything but I can almost gaurantee you that if your list infludes a couple of dozen items I will find one that I can abuse.

Just for an example.... there are some armor items that would be great for pangaea but sending them to ulm would cause ulm to downgrade his commanders. Some swords also.

Perhaps there could be a nation-specific list of abusable and non-abusable items? RoLK might be abusable with Marignon, but C'tis and Ermor are a diffrent story. And do we count items that are potent(Robe of the Magi, Lifelong Protection), but Horror Mark or Curse the wearer abusable items?

Particle · #**149** October 18th, 2003, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zerger:
Yeah, I think that trading items is a bad idea.
Sending gold, gems, or transferring provinces is enough.
Those cannot be abused. + The devs won't have to mess around with 2000 items.

Yeah, I agree.
Well if the devs will have time, they should sort out the items, and perhaps trading items should be allowed than.

Aristoteles · #**150** October 18th, 2003, 12:27 PM

Ok so my diplo system idea is good than.

I don't know too much about diplo AI, but there must be some way to prevent the abusing.
Those global effects via diplo abusing sounds very cool. When the AI will detect that you are trying to double cross him with a fake alliance, and there will be big penalties for it, no one will abuse the diplo AI than.

I have another idea, maybe there should be a minimum time limit for alliances. Like for 10 turns you cannot cancel the alliance, and for additional 10 you cannot attack your former ally.

The AI must have a long memory, IE it must remember all major things, like alliances, wars, global spells, aggression, etc.

Items. Well the trading items is a very good part of the game, but you can abuse it. If it will be allowed to trade items, that must affect diplomacy.
All items must be categorized. Also only the "usable by everyone" items should be allowed to trade. Than we wont have a situation that the item is good good for "XY" but it is not good for "VZ". If you are giving away a good item, the relations will improve, if you are giving away a bad item, the relation points will decrease.
There is a more simple way, only allow "good, usable by everyone" items to trade.

[ October 18, 2003, 11:30: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]