Moo3 is a shareware now

[Roanon]

Originally posted by Loser:
ATTENTION MoO3 CRITICS: Could the unpatchable (intentional) "flaws" in the game not be summed up as "They tried to make a micromanagement free 4X game."?

Problem is they created a totally management-free game. And labelled the so created Sim-Galaxy game as "strategy game". Apart from most people not liking sim-type games, this (intentional) non-fulfilling of promises and expectations is causing the many irate responses and attacks aimed at QS and Atari.

Would they have sold the game as what it really is, they wouldn't have gotten so much heat. Well, and about a tenth of the sales also, but thats another story.

[Erax]

There's a reason why most SEIV gamers hated MoO3. We all love micromanagement (see the 'SE IV code' thread) and SEIV delivers it to us in grand style.

This does not mean that we represent the sum total of the strategy space gamer community. There must be many people out there who want to conquer the galaxy in two-minute, five-clicks-of-the-mouse turns.

Sim games have their own market. If Atari had aimed at them and not at, well, gamers like us, they might have had pretty good sales on MoO3. We would still hate it but the game wouldn't be such a fiasco.

That having been said, it is never a good idea to pull a gentre switch on your public. It is better to re-release the same game with better graphics (anyone remember Terror from the Deep ?) than to give your public something they do not want and weren't expecting.

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by Chief Engineer Erax:
There's a reason why most SEIV gamers hated MoO3. We all love micromanagement (see the 'SE IV code' thread) and SEIV delivers it to us in grand style.

This does not mean that we represent the sum total of the strategy space gamer community. There must be many people out there who want to conquer the galaxy in two-minute, five-clicks-of-the-mouse turns.

Sim games have their own market. If Atari had aimed at them and not at, well, gamers like us, they might have had pretty good sales on MoO3. We would still hate it but the game wouldn't be such a fiasco.

That having been said, it is never a good idea to pull a gentre switch on your public. It is better to re-release the same game with better graphics (anyone remember Terror from the Deep ?) than to give your public something they do not want and weren't expecting.

Sorry to repeat myself, but MOO3 has more than enough micromanaging available if one so desires. MOO3 is also a very good strategy game, as there are numerous & constant decisions one can be involved in. This game is also moddable to suit one's taste in many areas. Where MOO3 really excels is in Online multiplay. Something this "genre" has been less then impressive. It is not perfect, but it is very good.
I know, I play it, it is fun! I also like SEIV, a very impressive program. Much to appreciate thanks to the people who play & the designer who listens.
I am hopeful MOO3's fan support will be as impressive as SEIV's is.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i'm not a fan of micromanagement, like it sometimes, not others. and i like simcity, there's control, just not direct control. got 153 eq once by building a city of squares on a flat map. each square contained a six by six area. very effecient. then there's finding a good design on a random map without bulldozing anything up or down. you sorta have to flow with the terrain. i'm getting a mayoral urge again.
botf - birth of the federation? is there a demo for that? so far, i don't like the galciv demo. although it could be that i can't figure out how the turns work my survey ship seems to be able to travel forever as long as i click on it again. and the demo makes me feel crowded, i don't think you really can play it with only one ai race.

[ June 13, 2003, 09:04: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Suicide Junkie]

each square contained a six by six area.

That sounds very inefficient...
You do realize that the way you had it, each tile of buildable land was serviced by no less than 2 road segments?
Your city repeated every 7x7 squares, so for every 49 squares of land, you spent... 7+6 on roads, or 26.5%

Things to do:
- Eliminate many of the cross-roads, to form longer rectangular zones. Theoretical minimum land spent on roads vs total serviced area = 14.3%
- spread the zones to SEVEN by seven or higher...
(2x2 and 3x3 buildings can "ooze out" over the center area no problem) You can also place the support structures for your city in these areas that are unserviced by roads, such as; water pumps and power plants, and all manner of the multi-square buildings you place yourself.
- For THE ULTIMATE in zone density, use only subways and subway stations. No roads, rails or any form of trasnportation except underground.
For each 1 tile of subway station, you get 24 tiles of zonable land. The Station's service areas can be made to tile a plane perfectly, thus costing you only 4% of your space for transportation instead of the 26.5% you were spending on that 6x6 grid city.

This gets you a 30% increase in usable land area!

As a side bonus, during a firestorm, the subway city can be easily protected...
Just place a single police unit on each subway station that is in danger...
Any area that burns down will be rebuilt by the citizens, since there is a continuous grid of power available from the rest of the city.

[ June 13, 2003, 14:54: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[CNCRaymond]

Originally posted by eddieballgame:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chief Engineer Erax:
There's a reason why most SEIV gamers hated MoO3. We all love micromanagement (see the 'SE IV code' thread) and SEIV delivers it to us in grand style.

This does not mean that we represent the sum total of the strategy space gamer community. There must be many people out there who want to conquer the galaxy in two-minute, five-clicks-of-the-mouse turns.

Sim games have their own market. If Atari had aimed at them and not at, well, gamers like us, they might have had pretty good sales on MoO3. We would still hate it but the game wouldn't be such a fiasco.

That having been said, it is never a good idea to pull a gentre switch on your public. It is better to re-release the same game with better graphics (anyone remember Terror from the Deep ?) than to give your public something they do not want and weren't expecting.

Sorry to repeat myself, but MOO3 has more than enough micromanaging available if one so desires. MOO3 is also a very good strategy game, as there are numerous & constant decisions one can be involved in. This game is also moddable to suit one's taste in many areas. Where MOO3 really excels is in Online multiplay. Something this "genre" has been less then impressive. It is not perfect, but it is very good.
I know, I play it, it is fun! I also like SEIV, a very impressive program. Much to appreciate thanks to the people who play & the designer who listens.
I am hopeful MOO3's fan support will be as impressive as SEIV's is.

---

Yes, I have to agree, MOO3 seems to really have focused a lot of attention into MP and that is a welcome change. I think that might have been the over all idea of the developers. They focused all of the game toward MP and less toward SP and that is why SP seems so under developed and poorly implemented.

I bought the game and really bashed it hard, but now, given time to play it, I have relized that it is an interesting game, no where near as good as SEIV or GalCiv though. The area that MOO3 shines in is its MP.

[CNCRaymond]

Originally posted by minipol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Hell BOTF was based off of MOO2 and it was a great game. (Although not at first warmly received by fans with to high of expectations.)

I liked BOTF too. I never really understood every bodys gripes. It seems to me that nowadays, when 1 person starts whining about a game, it's automatically true and it spreads like a virus. A lot of people seem to find it a sport to bash programmers. True, a lot of games are released prematurely. I remember Daggerfall. Bugged like hell ( it was actually 1 big bug with some game in there ) but i liked it and i played it.

---

I loved Birth Of The Federation and still play it to this day. Hard core Trekers from the old Civ forum formed several pro=BOTF forums and spread the word about how great the game would be. I bought it and enjoyed right off the shelf. It did have some problems with memorie leaks and crashed often in multiplayer at MS game zone.

I remember reading at the BOTF forum when the developers told the fans to "F-OFF" and from that point on no new patches were released and Microprose moved on. I think Hasbro bought them and offically they do not recognize BOTF any more. Also Activition bought out all of the rights to make Star Trek games and that combined with other factors killed any chance for a BOTF II.

I loved BOTF, and even though all of the pro-BOTF forums like TOP, TGN, FSN, and others bashed the hell out of the game at first, most came around, too late to make a differance, and began supporting the game and the mod community. Which I might add did a great job making a few great mods.

[eddieballgame]

Yes, I have to agree, MOO3 seems to really have focused a lot of attention into MP and that is a welcome change. I think that might have been the over all idea of the developers. They focused all of the game toward MP and less toward SP and that is why SP seems so under developed and poorly implemented.

I bought the game and really bashed it hard, but now, given time to play it, I have relized that it is an interesting game, no where near as good as SEIV or GalCiv though. The area that MOO3 shines in is its MP.[/QB]

Try MOO3 v1.2---the challenge is to win on "easy"! In my opinion MOO3 shines also as SP, much more to offer then MOO2 & now more challenging. The changes to the AI & Screens are wonderful.

[ June 13, 2003, 20:38: Message edited by: eddieballgame ]

[Fyron]

MOO3 is not a great game, and will never be a great game. It will at best be an average game. MOO and MOO2 were great games. MOO3 is a shameful successor to the MOO series.

[thorfrog]

Can't believe the designers of MOO3 released this garbage. Space Empires rules. Even BOTF was better.