Niefelheim - Who’s afraid of the big bad wolf? - Page 15

Jrandom · #**141** December 3rd, 2012, 07:18 AM

I am trying this Strat with Vanilla Dom3. I'm having an issue with the SCs turning into wolves at the end of combat and losing all their gear accept the 2 misc slots. Does CBM fix that issue or is this a new bug?

Edi · #**142** December 3rd, 2012, 11:11 AM

It's not a bug, it's working exactly as it's supposed to. You're not supposed to give them anything but misc equipment.

Fantomen · #**143** December 3rd, 2012, 11:24 AM

That only happens when you change shape IN the battle.
If you change into a werewolf before the battle it stays a werewolf after.

Edi · #**144** December 3rd, 2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantomen

That only happens when you change shape IN the battle.
If you change into a werewolf before the battle it stays a werewolf after.

IIRC the Skratti has three forms: Skratti, Jotun werewolf and Jotun Wolf. If the Jotun werewolf form gets whacked, it changes to the Jotun Wolf and consequently drops all but misc. gear. If the jotun Wolf gets killed, it dies. If it survives, it should revert to the Skratti form.

The reason for this is that sometimes involuntary shapechange in battle triggers another shapechange command after battle and in the case of the skratti, because there are three forms, it does not work as things do with units that only have two forms.

SsSam · #**145** December 3rd, 2012, 03:35 PM

My test game shows Fantomen is correct, which is not the same as saying Edi is wrong.

If you change into the werewolf form in the strategic map and enter combat, your skratti will remain in that form during and after the battle.

If you change into werewolf form as a scripted (or I assume unscripted) part of your orders during the battle then at the end of the battle you will become a wolf.

I don't know what happens if you are killed. That's a bit tougher to test and Edi may well be correct as well.

What happens is folks want to enter combat in mage form to have access to that extra level of water or whatever. Then they script the change to werewolf form and get a rude shock when they start their next turn and the wolf has decided it wasn't that interested in all that shiny gear.

Big Jotun Oops.

My understanding is that this is a feature, not a bug.

Edi · #**146** December 3rd, 2012, 04:05 PM

Admittedly, I have not tested that, but went from memory of how I've seen shapechange work previously. Basically battlefied shapechange causes the unit to want to revert back to the form it had when it entered battle. Wit things like Jaguar Warriors or Black Sorcerers, the shapechange is always involuntary and the return to the original shape is through the #firstshape mechanic.

For units with full shapechange, the shapechange command is triggered. In most cases, such as the dragons, it simply switches the form back and forth. With the Jotun Skratti, it cycles into the next form and drops the gear. In that case it would need to cycle twice or skip over one form with some kind of offset factor, which does not exist in Dominions 3.

Therefore it's a feature, not a bug.

SsSam · #**147** December 3rd, 2012, 04:19 PM

Looks like a skratti in any form that is killed in combat does not revert to another form, but dies.

Jrandom · #**148** December 3rd, 2012, 10:39 PM

I also had the issue happen while being in human form, then turning into a werewolf from taking damage. When the next turn started, I would notice the Skratti was in dog form and the human basic leader with him ended up finding 1 of the Skratti's lost axes.

JonBrave · #**149** December 4th, 2012, 04:40 PM

Outside of battle, a shape-changer to the fewer-items shape retains the items in the other slots, to reappear in the more-items shape, right?

What I don't get is: where are those items actually kept? I think someone might have said there may be hidden "retainers" who hold the items...

Soyweiser · #**150** December 4th, 2012, 04:57 PM

Jon, those items disappear. Unless there is a lab, then they might get placed into the storage.

There is no hidden retainer.

You can get your own hidden retainer by using scouts.

Regarding skrattir this is what I remember:
Changing before battle. No changes of shape during battle.
Changing during battle, the shape moves one shape after battle wolf -> giant, werewolf -> wolf, etc.

I think, not sure, that a giant skrattir that is killed transforms into a werewolf, and becomes a wolf after battle. Not 100% sure on this one. but this should be easy to test.