Mod Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies - Page 15

Aezeal · #**141** April 23rd, 2008, 06:12 PM

Ok I'm brainstorming a bit on Sandworm/Shai-hulud

It should trample and it should be huge..
Preferably it should be able to trample even elephants but I don't think anything larger than size 6 is accepted so that can't happen. (plz correct me if I'm wrong)

so that means
size 6 (with a huge sprite)
#trample

I'm thinking it would (besides trampling) only attack by swallowing things whole and incinrating it in it's intestines.
I would use the devourer of souls attack which is called devour soul (with the soul death ability) except that I would make a new weapon just called
#name "devour"
#AOE 1
#dmg 999
#bonus
#magic
#armornegating
#nratt 2 to simulate it can swallow huge numbers of troops at once.
#att 3
#def 0
#len 0

will the creature use this weapon or just try trampling everything?

I'm thinking VERY high HP, high natural defence, decent att skill and average defense skill

I would also like it to burrow but I can't find anything to simulate it except flying (no movement inhibition, skipping provinces and on battle map being somewhere instantly).. which seem kinda silly since it's the opposite.
I was wondering wether a onebattlespell could help here (are there teleport spells except flight? and blink which isn't really it eitehr?)

it would have vulnerability to shock and water (but that doesn't seem to exist) and 100% fireresistance

it would #regenerate 10

and it would be stealthy 5 (if ti's underground it's not likely to be noticed)

no item slots except 2x misc

would this be competative as a high level summon or to strong (I don't really think so since it's only got 2 misc slots so not very much possibilities for adaptation)or to weak (then again it's already got regen will have a ****load of HP, a pretty nasty attack and trample)

Aezeal · #**142** April 23rd, 2008, 07:12 PM

ow I just tested this... I'll post the .dm file with them as recruitables... it rocks t see them in action like they are now

Wrana · #**143** April 23rd, 2008, 07:51 PM

Well, in this case it will use trample except against Elephants/Dragons. Trample w/ Size 6 is very powerful in itself, of course, but I would prefer just making area-effect swallow. However, I don't know whether it's possible to exclude self-hitting possibility in any way (& in differenence to great mace here it would be silly!

). Also I wouldn't make it so high-damage. There is weapon quality called swallow iirc, which multiplies damage against smaller beings. There is also a possibility to add small-area fire to its attack (it was mentioned but wasn't of great importance in Dune, of course!) - this would have an advantage as it would allow area effect with no actual chance of biting himself!

As for water weakness it can be simulated by using either cold or poison weakness. Or even both! Sailor's Death is iirc just a MRE negated damage (I'll look it up). What we could add to emphasize his vulnerability to water is the quality of Vampires & Air Queens which forbids them to enter water in any way (it's hidden iirc, but can be gained by copystats).
On stealthy I disagree. They were easily detected by tremors in the ground even while traveling deep below sands, and if they were not so deep they were preceded by huge sand waves!
On burrow... well, to duplicate no movement inhibition we can use mountain survival (waste one is a must) - and it's not as if Shai-Hulud could really survive beneath forests/swamps!

As for battlefield - yes, onebattlespell is probably the way if we want to include such surprise attack at all. Method for this is probably to make new spell called burrow or somesuch & copy to it blink, etc. with different description (if you think it needed).
I also don't know how to duplicate it giving off the spice - probably as gem producing?

Another thought just occurring to me is a possibility to somehow intertwine this with hashishiins' drug use...

And as Shai-hulud was highly mystical creature, it should get 3 misc slots!

Size 7 is probably impossible in the game, but you can either write to Kristopher & ask him, or just make it so & test whether this would cause crash/bugs... I for myself wouldn't make elephants largest possible objects in the game but programmers could...

I already said that I'd prefer him as a Pretender, so we should wait whether someone else has some ideas on this... BTW, did you mean commander-type, or troop-type summon?

Aezeal · #**144** April 24th, 2008, 06:09 PM

troop
no magic

I think immunity to cold isn't the same as immunity to water and I don't think it really fits with the Sandworm
same for poison I'd sooner make it poison resistant (I actually will I think)

I notice that if it has trample it won't use it's awesome attack (which btw doens't target itself since it's 2x a AOE 1 attack I think

I wanted to keep the VERY high damage on devour since it could then kill large (size 6 creatures)..
I'll just remove trample though since sandworms actually just devour.. they don't really trample at all.

I want a nice balance for a strong troop (no magic, and only 2 (or 3 if you insist) item slots it he gets GoR

I actually think stealth does apply since if they are deep they can't be found IMHO...
I also think a burrowing unit would really be able t do the same things a flying unit can I would just like it to not have the flying symbol show up.

I would love to hear if size 7 is possible though

Wrana · #**145** April 24th, 2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

I think immunity to cold isn't the same as immunity to water and I don't think it really fits with the Sandworm
same for poison I'd sooner make it poison resistant (I actually will I think)

Of course it isn't the same!

BUT we have no specific resistances, etc. for Sailor's Death, etc. And giving THIS creature low MRE would be just stupid.

Quote:

awesome attack (which btw doens't target itself since it's 2x a AOE 1 attack I think

Of course AOE 1 can't hit itself, but I meant larger AOE, while 2 attacks look about the same as flying icon for me..

Quote:

I wanted to keep the VERY high damage on devour since it could then kill large (size 6 creatures)..

Well, it can do it with, say, basic dmg 30 + Str 30 quite well.

Quote:

sandworms actually just devour.. they don't really trample at all.

Actually they did it quite well - in cases of not-dextrous-enough riders...

But this, of course, was purely accidental. Also, do you plan to include siege bonus or just let its size & strength speak for themselves?

Quote:

I want a nice balance for a strong troop

Well, some could say that 999-damage area attack isn't quite their idea of a nice balance...

Quote:

I actually think stealth does apply since if they are deep they can't be found IMHO...
I also think a burrowing unit would really be able t do the same things a flying unit can I would just like it to not have the flying symbol show up.

Too large! Ground tremors would give it away long before it will rise to attack.
Also, combination of flying & stealth is quite powerful by itself, without insane stats which Shai-Hulud should have.

Quote:

I would love to hear if size 7 is possible though

Me, too!

I just don't have an itch to test it myself.

You can do it while working on unit...

NTJedi · #**146** April 24th, 2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Aezeal said:

I would love to hear if size 7 is possible though

I don't think its possible for size_7, otherwise I'm sure KO and JK would have created a unit of such a size. It would be nice if size_7 thru size_10 were made available via modding.

Saulot · #**147** April 24th, 2008, 08:12 PM

There is no size 7. Size 6 is an abstraction for all creatures larger than size 5, even if relatively they are not quite similar in size with each other... like a tarrasque and an elephant.

The main obstacle with bigger creatures is not the size limitation, but the grid size on the battlefield, and the 128x128 pixel limit. Even if the pixel limit was removed, larger sprites would begin to overlap (in fact, they can even at sizes within the 128 limit already) due to grid spacing.

Edit: For those of you thinking, well.. maybe in Dom4 we can ask for size12 grids which are about 4 times the size of the current ones (and have 6 size2 units), that comes with it's own baggage, namely that you're going to have units which attack other units with melee weapons that couldn't possibly reach them.

Wrana · #**148** April 24th, 2008, 09:09 PM

Thanks. However, about reach - does weapon length has any relation to it?

Endoperez · #**149** April 25th, 2008, 03:01 AM

No. Press 'g' in battle to see the grid. If units of different sides are in neighbouring squares, they can melee; if not, they can't melee.

Saulot · #**150** April 25th, 2008, 03:35 AM

Nothing to do with weapon length or stats at all.

I meant, as it appears, on the battlefield,... the units will attack and hit each other as normal. Just that if you revised the system as I gave in example, the units will appear to be very far apart, and hitting each other swords and daggers even when they look like they're 20 feet apart or so. It will look strange.