MP: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Squirrelloid/Bandar Log wins!

[Squirrelloid]

Valerius, regarding proposed rules for next game:
1)Ok, I get the other items, but why no heroes blades?
2)If you want to discuss proper blood spell costs, I'd be happy to, since I've been doing quite a bit of thinking on the matter
3)I presume we aren't allowed to forge the 'downgraded' artifacts - they're there so events have something to work with and that's it.
4)Might want to consider changing eras, maybe LA?

[NooBliss]

>> It better have been, I spent a lot of pearls to be able to cast it wherever I needed it =)

Well, but it instantly rendered my battlemagic and thus more or less whole nation useless.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by NooBliss

>> It better have been, I spent a lot of pearls to be able to cast it wherever I needed it =)

Well, but it instantly rendered my battlemagic and thus more or less whole nation useless.

That magma eruption was still pretty killer. Arrow Fend does nothing about that, I had to use screens of chaffe to stop it from totally destroying me.

-------
Game is mysteriously still running, despite having received teh 'game ending' email. I just got a turn! I'll be ignoring the game, since its supposed to be dead.

[NooBliss]

T_T... wish my mages could cast it more than twice before falling unconscious, having killed a sacred or two. Its not even nearly as effective as bladewind, at least for Agartha mages. Imho.

[LDiCesare]

I'd rather stick with no magic items than uniques at levels 2, 4, 6. Or maybe put some never used items there. I mean, noone will forge a champion's skull, a ring of warning. Might as well get one from a random event. Halberds of might, birch boots are also quite uncommon. (These might even be somewhat useful, contrary to black laurels.)

As for nation choice, I wouldn't pick Mictlan again. They can rush fine, but their mages are too limited and getting into blood's too hard. I might pick Ulm. If monkey PD can win, why couldn't the forgers?

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by LoloMo

Is the spell mists of deception still banned? Do we start with 12 provinces or do we start with just the capital and expand as normal? I would certainly play again!

MoD is still banned. I think at this point the only spell change on my to-do list is making Hidden in Sand castable in all terrains. This provides an opportunity to obtain a fire mage as well as another option for S magic if your D income is poor and you can't afford spectres.

Originally Posted by LoloMo

Do we start with 12 provinces or do we start with just the capital and expand as normal?

This is the big question. We can certainly get everything done that we need to by using map commands. If we go this route I can either do the work myself as a player (in which case we'd all know our neighbors and their fort locations ahead of time) or I can step into an admin role and take care of all this. I can ask rdonj to help out but it takes time to do this (even more so if we go to 8 players) and I don't want to impose.

Another option would be to start the game as normal (maybe everyone gets 3 starting provinces?) and there would be an expansion phase as in a normal game - the big exception being that there's no need to site search conquered indies.

Originally Posted by LoloMo

I would certainly play again!

Glad to hear it! So by my count that makes you, Squirrelloid, LDiCesare and myself (unless I only admin). What about you, NooBliss?

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Valerius, regarding proposed rules for next game:
1)Ok, I get the other items, but why no heroes blades?

Of the misc. changes this was the one I was most on the fence about. In the end I included it as a measure to protect pretenders - which I figured would be the only giant size SCs in the game.

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

2)If you want to discuss proper blood spell costs, I'd be happy to, since I've been doing quite a bit of thinking on the matter

Sure, sounds good. Obviously you're going to make some price adjustments in the next release of your mod but comparing the current release with the ThreeFort pricing it seems like in some instances your price was higher than mine, in others vice versa. But the big difference is that I eliminated many spells. I'm willing to put some of those back in but, in the context of this game, there are some I'd like to still leave out: Ice Devils (self explanatory), Infernal Disease (too cheap and too low level in CBM, even given high casting requirements - even more important I think has the potential to be un-fun and take away from this game - lastly, there's no earth attack or manifestation so I see no need for this either), Blood Rite (you know my whole gripe with immortal units). Stuff I'd consider putting back in but have concerns about price: Rain of Toads (especially concerning in a game with limited forts), Send Lesser Horror (bit of a price boost might be enough here), Bind Succubus (this one isn't a problem I think it just got caught up in my nerfing other aspects of blood).

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

3)I presume we aren't allowed to forge the 'downgraded' artifacts - they're there so events have something to work with and that's it.

Yes, exactly. It's mainly the honor system but I'll set them all to have max forging cost to avoid accidents.

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

4)Might want to consider changing eras, maybe LA?

The problem here is that I really don't like LA. I like EA but the list of OP nations expands considerably compared to MA. I'd like to stick with MA this time but if the next game turns out to be fun and there's a third we could switch eras (though if we went with LA I'd need a lot of feedack on balance since I so rarely play it).

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Game is mysteriously still running, despite having received teh 'game ending' email. I just got a turn! I'll be ignoring the game, since its supposed to be dead.

This is a perfect example of why I think immortality is OP! Ok, I tried killing it again, let's see if this one sticks.

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

That magma eruption was still pretty killer. Arrow Fend does nothing about that, I had to use screens of chaffe to stop it from totally destroying me.

I was wondering about magma eruption as well. Tough thing about the fatigue, though. But also, doesn't Bandar have some armored troops that could be boosted up to around 20 protection with Wooden Warrriors (the only protection buff with a decent AOE under these settings)? It seems like those troops would be largely immune to blade wind, but maybe I'm underestimating massed blade wind?

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

I'd rather stick with no magic items than uniques at levels 2, 4, 6. Or maybe put some never used items there. I mean, noone will forge a champion's skull, a ring of warning. Might as well get one from a random event. Halberds of might, birch boots are also quite uncommon. (These might even be somewhat useful, contrary to black laurels.)

Hopefully I can change your mind as I was really looking forward to this. Keep in mind I wouldn't add powerful things like the Gate Stone to the mix. I wasn't even planning on any of them being as powerful as a Ring of Wizardry or Robe of the Magi. It's more just for fun than to be something really powerful. But I don't want them to be useless either. As an example, what about something like Ember as a level 6 item?

[LDiCesare]

Well, I'm on the receiving end of ember in another game (where my mighty C'tis has single-digit death income by the time I should have tartarians, despitee controlling and searching a lot of provinces - this game's logn lost) and I'm not enjoying it.
Some artefacts would be ok.
Quickly, I think Percivale the pocket knight, the sharpest tooth, Holger's head, the flying ship, sandals of the planes, Carcator, would all be ok.

[Valerius]

I like your list, except for the flying ship, with which I've had some bad experiences.

So, here's a first draft. We can also fill out the list with non-unique, rarely forged, items.

Level 2:
The Sharpest Tooth
Sandals of the Crane
Holger the Head
Percival the Pocket Knight
Alchemist's Stone

Level 4:
O'al Kan's Sceptre
Winter Bringer
Rod of Death
The Flailing Hands
Fenris's Pelt
Krupp's Bracers
Carcator the Pocket Lich
Tome of the Lower Planes

Level 6:
Aseftik's Armor
Monolith Armor
Robe of Calius the Druid
Flesh Ward
Pebble Skin Suit
Boots of Calius the Druid
Tome of High Power
The Black Book of Secrets
The Tome of Gaia
Ardmon's Soul Trap

[NooBliss]

>> Glad to hear it! So by my count that makes you, Squirrelloid, LDiCesare and myself (unless I only admin). What about you, NooBliss?

Nah, thanks. I'll pass. I am right in the middle of another game now, and besides, I think I'll wait till you sort the balance out. I am... not quite content with arrow fend being awailable where rain of stones and other battlefield-wide spells are not. I may be easily wrong, so let's see how your future games fare.