Patch Post #2 for the 2013/2014 Campaign.
Again the object here is to fix mistakes from last year from my Patch Posts. Based on the first input already submitted, this will address MBT issues from
Page 13/Post #123 of this thread. Some of this again was self inflicted which cast a net of confusion over some other equipment issues. Again I plan to deal with the promised issues that were requested by you folks out there and they will be recognized as I get to them in this input my last for the year.
Again for reasons of time, I will not reinvent the wheel here and will copy from the original posts. Assume all issues come from the above Post, if I use other related Threads /or Posts they will be noted separately. All previous info will again be in quotations. Also all
DEFPRO references will again be removed. This will also show the importance once again in tracking equipment entered in the game. Hopefully the
STRV issue will be resolved after I caused some confusion concerning them last year. There will be some new items below as well.
Let’s start…
MBT’s…
C1. TANZANIA/CHANGE/UNIT 023/TYPE 59G/START DATE TO OCT 2012 VICE JAN 2005//
“A2. TANZANIA/ADD/OCT 2012/TYPE 59G/MG Chinese 125mm SB w/Rds UKN/12.7mm and 7.62mm w/Rds UKN// “ Is EW an issue here as well with this type system as follows?
“The turret appears to be the same one that’s on the new Chinese TYPE 96G. Based on that it would appear then also it is carrying the same EW system as the TYPE 96 which is similar to the Russian Shtora-1.”
Also I have some info to support submitting a new TYPE 96A to the Chinese OOB, hopefully below and as was mentioned previously. “Note: It would appear this improved version of the Chinese TYPE 96 is not in the OOB as shown in Ref. 6 below. See UNIT 026 (My update…Chinese OOB). The refs refer to “the new TYPE 96.”
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=55
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...9g_271211.html
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type59.asp
http://www.armyrecognition.com/china..._pictures.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/china...igence_uk.html
C2. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNITS 31, 356 & 358/STRV-122/HEAT TOP TO 20 VICE 16/UNITS 31, 353, 356 & 35/STRV 122 & STRV 122B/STEEL 12 VICE 8//
“C2. SWEDEN/CHANGE/STRV-122/UNITS 31, 356 & 358/Change to STRV-122A/Modify per A3 above/Refs per A3 above. //
Most of the STRV-122 units are to be upgraded by the end of this year.” Haven’t seen anything on this last however, I really haven’t had a chance to thus far to follow up on the STRV-122. Also for context on C2;
“A3. SWEDEN/ADD/OCT 2004/STRV 122B/Use UNIT 358 and modify per below as needed//
The big issue here is protection over the base German Leopard tanks that the
STRV-122A and STRV-122B design modifications are derived from. First a breakdown of the STRV Series. The
STRV-121 is a Leopard 2A4 as used by Germany at the time of purchase by Sweden in 1994 and 1995 they are both interchangeable.”
“The
STRV-122A is a “German” Leopard 2A5 but that’s where the comparison ends. The major area in armor improvement was in the
top protectionfor instance the turret hatches are just over 20cm in thickness. After extensive testing the Swedes decided on a geared system for opening them at even severe angles.” Here’s what we know first from the
STRIX posts, that the Swedes did extensive testing on the T-72 tanks they had and we posted videos showing some of that. It would’ve been a bad day for Russian T-72 crews but the lessons learned from that were
built into the STRV-122A tanks while being built in Germany. That was a good day for Swedish crews. Again 20cm/200mm is almost 2ft thick which also means the surrounding steel is thicker as the hatch is recessed. I strongly feel that this is one of the most protected tanks out there in regards to where the top of the turret is concerned and the turret in general. All I have to offer based on the numbers and from personal experience in my submarine career dealing with our hatches in not letting water into “the people tank” at several hundreds of pounds per sq. inch and that I have
not in any research for
any tank seen information pointing out the thickness of and operation of the top hatch, I feel the STEEL issue might warrant further consideration. The
STRV-122B was not modified with additional top protection but is correct for what should’ve been the
HEAT TOP number for the
STRV-122 series of tanks in general all along.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2019.html
C3. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNITS 31, 353, 356 & 358/STRV-122 & STRV-122B/ADD/GALIX Self Defense System with 6 HE FRAG 80mm grenades/As discussed in the Patch Thread on Posts 143-149//
The STRV Series of tanks have 16 launchers, 8 to a side in a 6/2 configuration. As noted below I still have no evidence of any other country user that has weaponized their launchers.
From
Post 143 “Can the use of the
dual purpose grenade launchers on the Swedish STRV-122/122B be activated in the last available weapons slot to fire off (In real life by the tank commander manually.) either buckshot/flechette, HE-blast or fragmentation grenades? This is a unique feature of the Gallix System dual purpose launchers installed on these tanks (And others.) which can be loaded internally.”
and “As far as I can find out Sweden is the only country using those type of
80mm grenades of the ten or so that are available for use with these launchers.”
What to do about the other country users will require more work. Weapons slots might prevent it in a couple as was the case with the MERKAVA and M-60T in regards to the 60mm Mortars we know they have. I will pursue this if Andy and you want me to but it’ll have to be for next year on my end.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product719.html
http://www.nexter-group.com/en/produ...ponent&print=1
C4. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNIT 358/STRV 122/END DATE TO JAN 2020 VICE DEC 2010//
C5. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNIT 359/STRV 121/END DATE TO DEC 2010 VICE JAN 2020//
As noted in my last update post, this is why I proof read my work when possible, to catch what I almost missed in the two entries above.
New Items:
A1. RUSSIA/ADD/OCT 2013/T-72B3/125mm SB 2A46M-5/TI GSR 40-45/ARENA E APS/RELIKT ERA//
The following is taken from the last ref. below
Post #749…
“Yeah its weird, other stupid thing is the non-automatic sight cover.
Good summary of T-72B3 upgrade: -overhaul of T-72B or B1
-new autoloader(for "Svinets" APFSDS) -new 125mm 2A46M5 gun
-new FCS, and new gunner main sight "Sosna-U"(same sight on T-90MS) 1A40 used as a backup
-new radiostation R-168-25U-2 -commander sight TKN-3MK with "duplication" mode
T-72B4 as we know will add the commanders panoramic sight (same as T-90MS) as well as battle management systems.”
Pretty much falls in line with what I can find out about these tanks. The FCS is very much in line with existing T-90S models I would think with improvement of T-90MS components as noted above. Also of interest is the
“Svinets” APFSDS round, seeing reports that testing has recently been completed and MOD is ready to field this round now. Don’t know status of this round however, I believe you might have better access in ammo sources then me generally. It should be pointed out that
ARENA E is not effective against tank rounds but is supposed to be effective against Arty AP rounds besides RPGs and ATGM. Also this version of the T-72 is protected with
RELIKT ERA which is claimed to be twice as effective as the last version of
KONTAKT ERA designated
KONTAKT-5 which still is in use. As a side note Russia has already developed it’s next gen ERA called KAKTUS which I believe will be used on the
ARMATA MBT.
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131...ded-Tanks.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/octob...k_1510132.html
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20130...-Ministry.html
http://defense-update.com/20131106_t...eployment.html
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busine...ar/491336.html
http://www.russianarmor.info/Tanks/ARM/2a46.html
http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=779&p=2
http://www.russiadefence.net/t1868p7...ces-photosnews
http://defense-update.com/products/a/arena-e.htm
Pic:
A2. FINLAND/ADD/JUN 2015/LEOPARD 2A6FIN/USE NETHERLANDS UNIT 037//
The contract was approved on 19 JAN, I’m using the “SWAG” on the date and it should be close with deliveries starting in 2015. So after about 2 yrs. the Dutch LEOPARD 2NLA6 tanks finally have a home. As in Asia concerning China’s military build up, some countries in Europe are taking a look at their militaries as well due to the increases seen in Russia’s own increased defense spending. Finland not only bought the last of the active Dutch tanks at the time of retirement tanks (75) but, also cut into the last of their stockpiled ones (25) as well. No indications of any modifications that I can find or is hinted at. That’s what made these and the next two items so attractive to the buyer here and below, these tanks are fully modernized, well maintained and cheaper than modernizing existing stock or buying new as the refs discuss.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...rlands-4161095
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.janes.com/article/31818/f...opard-2a6-mbts
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...k_2012134.html
http://dalje.com/en-economy/finland-...h-tanks/495328
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...inland-020936/
http://defense-update.com/20140119_f..._leopards.html
http://www.janes.com/article/32619/f...om-netherlands
A3. POLAND/ADD/APR 2014/LEOPARD 2A5/USE GERMAN UNITS 272 & 273/ORDERED 105/NOTE: THOUGH POSSIBLE I ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION IN NOT CHOOSING UNITS 274 & 275. YOUR CALL HERE//
A4. POLAND/ADD/APR 2014/LEOPARD 2A4/USE GERMAN UNITS 268 & 269/ORDERED 14//
Pretty much for the same reasons above for Finland, Poland is also pushing hard to modernize its military. Again some “SWAG” but this deal is sealed as well.
Contracts were signed in mid 2013 with deliveries to start in 2014 and be completed by 2015. Also this should to some degree answer the question about what Poland was going to do platform wise and this could end or at a minimum delay them in seeking a “Medium” tank solution as has been discussed.
The issue here in choosing the German tanks I did was based on the information from the refs themselves that indicated that the Polish MOD would
NOT have to do any modernization on these tanks.
I also took into account the LEOPARD 2A4 tanks ordered would be of a later mark then Poland ordered from Germany and received in 2000. I did not include the 18 Bergepanzer 2 armored recovery vehicles (ARVs) that are part of this contract as I don’t believe they serve a game purpose.
C4. POLAND/CHANGE/UNIT 020/START DATE TO JUN 2000 VICE OCT 2002//
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.janes.com/article/29260/p...s-from-germany
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...-tanks-germany
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-tanks-019466/
http://www.defenceiq.com/amoured-veh...rmany-further/
PROMISES MADE:
PM1. AUSTRALIA/ADD/M113AS4 APC/JAN 2008/C2 P10/12.7mm w/1200 Rds//
PM2. AUSTRALIA/ADD/M125AS3 AM/JUN 2008/C5/81mm Mortar w/114Rds//
PM3. AUSTRALIA/ADD/M113AS4 ALV/Ordnance Carrier/C2/12.7mm w/1200Rds//
I’m allowing for the delays in the program here before these got fielded.
M113AS4 it was developed under the Land 106 Program that started in 1992 and would be completed with the final delivery of the M113AS4 by DEC 2012. The first 4 units would be delivered on
NOV 15, 2007 and the ADF (7th Bn.) would get 16 by the end of that year being fully operational. Let there be no doubt here, the Australians use these as direct fire support ACAV units in support of their infantry and tanks. They are improved versions of the
USA M113A3 with many improvements to include engines to keep up with the tanks, armor
(Up to 14.7mm.) and IED protection and handling as they have an extra set of road wheels and therefore are stretched.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...pgrades-05133/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/m113as4.htm
PMC1. AUSTRALIA/CHANGE/UNIT 319/M125A1/END DATE TO NOV 2009 VICE DEC 2020//
I’ll have work here to do for next year. The below ref from MOD points out that the M113A1 finished their last operation in East Timor in OCT 2009. Also one of the three pictured below is a “veteran” of the Vietnam War. We’ll need to extend several of the units out to the above date where weapons and ammo won’t cause any issues. Have no time for that now-sorry.
http://www.defence.gov.au/media/Depa...CurrentId=9834
http://armynews.realviewdigital.com/...enews_army.xml
Refer to the APC Thread for further info if desired in Posts 45 and 134-136. This one was for me 3 years later.
Pic:
PM4. AUSTRALIA/ADD/JUL 2011/C8/M777A2 155mm w/Rockwell FIRESTORM DTCS/AMMO XM1156 GPS FUZE KITS (EXCALIBUR) and DIEHL/RHEINMETALL SMArt 155 AT Rds//
This much like the
LAND 106 (M113AS3/4) the
LAND 17 (Artillery Replacement Program) was also plagued by numerous delays. The purpose of the program was to retire the 105mm M2A2, L119 HAMEL 105mm FG and M198 155mm (Addressed below). This weapon is considered in the “ultra-light weight” category. The A2 is the newest version of the piece. Also the system is so user friendly that it can be operated by a crew of 5 though, as noted above 8 is the standard crew for all users of the M777. The
FIRESTORM DTCS (Digital Terminal Control System) will allow for instant targeting coordination that will include a
tablet PC, a laser range finder, a laser target designator, a real-time video downlink receiver, a manpack radio, and the firm’s Defense Advanced GPS Receiver (DAGR).
Both the USA and USMC have already been equipped with the FIRESTORM DTCS package for their M777 pieces. It should be pointed out at this juncture that there are only two versions of the M777 as taken from Ref 1 as follows;
“The systems fitted with the digital fire control system are designated M777A1, and those with the software update which allows the firing of the Excalibur projectile, M777A2. M777A2 received full material release in July 2007, clearing the upgrade for fielding. All M777A1 systems will be upgraded to the A2 standard.” This is in reference the U.S. so changes need to be made to both the USA and USMC OOB’s (Ref 2) and possibly Canada as well. The ADF site (Ref 1) no longer shows any other artillery being used in active service. The
LAND 17 Phase 2 (Or 1C.) part of the program was also delayed and finally cut due to budget issues in May 2012. This program was to chose an SPA option for the ADF. The Australian 105mm has been retired, the L119 HAMEL 105mm has a battery on active service at their Artillery School and there are indications they along with the M198 155mm are in service with the Australian reserve forces. I have feelers out for information in Australia at this time so this and the above issues can wait until next year.
http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Equi.../M777-Howitzer
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ufh/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...goahead-01928/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...s_0606122.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/octob...2_1610122.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...tillery-03911/
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/mack_mc3.htm
Refer to the #15 Australian OOB Queries Thread by TDR for further info if desired in Posts 6, 12 and 15.
Pics for Game UNIT Picture from ADF files:
PM5. UNITED KINGDOM/ADD/FEB 1946 – JUN 1955/HORNET F.Mk.1/C1/SPD 472mph/4 HISPANO MK V 20mm Cannons w/190 RPG SAPI or HEI Rds/2 1000lb Bombs OR 8 RP-3 60lb Rockets/Optional Weapons Configuration 1 1000 lb or 2 500lb Bombs with 4 RP-3 60lb Rockets// The
HORNET F.Mk.1 was a further improvement upon the famed MOSQUITO. These planes actually flew before the end of WWII but not in numbers to be assigned in combat squadrons. Shared by
all versions they had a bullet proof laminated canopy, armored cockpit, nose section and gun panel section underneath. Aerodynamically the HORNET was superior to the MOSQUITO which along with the improved RR Merlin engines made this the fastest prop fighter. It to in combat in Malay; would prove to be as accurate or more so in getting weapons on the target for which the MOSQUITO was
legendary in doing so during WWII. The
HORNET F.MK.1 would have “shorter legs” than it’s successors but was still superior as compared to the SPITFIRE, P-51 and early jets with or without drop tanks. Interestedly the F.Mk.1 would only end up operating out of the UK.
PM6. UNITED KINGDOM/ADD/FEB 1946 – JUN 1956/HORNET F.Mk.3/C1/SPD 472mph/4 HISPANO MK V 20mm Cannons w/190 RPG SAPI or HEI Rds/2 1000lb Bombs OR 8 RP-3 60lb Rockets/Optional Weapons Configuration 1 1000 lb or 2 500lb Bombs with 4 RP-3 60lb Rockets//
The
HORNET F.Mk.3 would represent the pinnacle in design and performance of the type upon which all further types would be based. The range would be increased to 3000 mi. and maneuverability further improved upon with the introduction of a dorsal fin to the tail section. These planes would validate the type in combat (May 1951-May 1955) during the Malay Crisis of 1950 - 1960. These planes replaced the latest and last versions of the
SPITFIRE and
TEMPEST Squadrons already stationed there at the start of the conflict.
PM7. UNITED KINGDOM/ADD/FEB 1947 – FEB 1957/SEA HORNET F.Mk.20/C1/SPD 468mph/4 HISPANO MK V 20mm Cannons w/190 RPG SAPI or HEI Rds/2 1000lb Bombs OR 8 RP-3 60lb Rockets/Optional Weapons Configuration 1 1000 lb or 2 500lb Bombs with 4 RP-3 60lb Rockets//
The
SEA HORNET F.Mk.20 actually was derived from the
F.1 but would be improved to the F.3 modifications as that plane was coming to fruitarian. As the name would indicate this plane was built for the RN. The big differences from the RAF types was that it had folding wings, arresting equipment and wing modifications to slow the plane down for carrier landings. The speed decrease is due to the fact that the RN required the type to carry 3 cameras; in the case of the
F.20 and
NF.21 below, located 1 centerline and 2 angled side looking in the tail this added about 500lbs to the overall weight of the aircraft. However it’s interesting to note that except for the loss of some speed, these modifications had apparently little to no effect on the
SEA HORNET overall performance. The first ref below has comments made by the military test pilot Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown that flew the SEA HORNET during the evaluation process.
Captain Brown apparently still holds the record for flying the greatest number of different aircraft types.
PM8. UNITED KINGDOM/ADD/JAN 1949 – FEB 1957/SEA HORNET NF.Mk.21/C2/SPD 457mph/4 HISPANO MK V 20mm Cannons w/190 RPG SAPI or HEI Rds/2 1000lb Bombs OR 8 RP-3 60lb Rockets/Optional Weapons Configuration 1 1000 lb or 2 500lb Bombs with 4 RP-3 60lb Rockets//
The
SEA HORNET NF.Mk.21 was modified to carry the ASH radar system. This version was considered an
“all weather” fighter due to its status as a night fighter. Even though it had an elongated nose to house the radar and carried a radar operator; it seems from the refs and blogs I visited online, again the only issue this brought about was a further reduction in speed only as noted above for the
SEA HORNET F.Mk.20. The radar operator faced aft with a small canopy “bubble” that could be ejected to allow the operator to parachute out of his “cockpit”. His was located about midway in the fuselage.
http://www.livingwarbirds.com/de-havilland-hornet.php
http://dhhornet50.net/
http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/post-wa...et/hornet.html
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/...and_hornet.php
http://www.classicwarbirds.co.uk/bri...and-hornet.php
http://www.airpowerworld.info/other-...and-hornet.htm
http://britains-smallwars.com/malaya/reg.html#raf
Refer to the British OOB Thread by IMP for further info if desired in Posts 6 - 12 as brought to light by Gud. The last ref might be VERY useful for you designer types.
As always some of these inputs lead to further issues which I’ll address next year as these are extensions of this work above and as previously submitted. What I couldn’t fix and
doesn’t need fixing this year please until I can further verify it is of course the ARJUN Mk 1 w/LAHAT, the FLIP-FLOP of sources (Sometimes same ones.) that started showing up in late 2012 into 2013 concerning the Indonesian is it a LEO 2A6 or LEO 2A4 and a couple of videos that showed the tanks as 2A4 types late models. For next year lots of Jets, APC/IFV and SPA/SPAA (One dating back to 1995 to be added) for next year as well.
Regards,
Pat
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Anyway #2 for this year I think is done and just printed out so I can copy it here from "Word". Hopefully by later today if not, tomorrow. To prepare you, my only issue of concern with this input again from last year will be the STRV-122/122B HEAT TOP & STEEL. So as not to "skew" your thinking with my recommended numbers here, I'll give you the following info to independently think about this.
Hybrid Mode
