Balance Mod Available for SE:V

[Arralen]

Originally Posted by Captain Kwok

Regarding the setting allowing colonization, that's intentional. It generally works out better for the friendlier AIs to get more planets.

Then the AI should at least check for colonsation tech/home planet type .. it does not make much sense to intersettle with someone who has the same planet type.
Btw., it's a PITA to have all those colonies scattered all over the map, if you agree to such a treaty, therefore I don't really like that ....

Originally Posted by Captain Kwok

I was more concerned about the 30% trade level, full tech trade, or migration elements being offered too 'early' in relations. If you have a situation like that again, be sure to send me the game.

This time, things got even worse ... got full cooperation treaty suggestion from the Terrans the very turn I met them .. when they shouldn't be able to send me messages at all, AFAIK.
I'm pretty much sure, though, that the Abbiddon in the last game send that message 2 or 3 turn after I met them, so that impossible message can't be the cause in itself ...
Email with savegame is on its way !

[Captain Kwok]

There does seem to be an issue that I'll have to look into. Maybe a few days from now though since I'm moving. :P

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Good luck on the move. And remember, nothing thanks movers like pizza and drinks.

[Arralen]

Hope moving went well

Originally Posted by Captain Kwok

Regarding the setting allowing colonization, that's intentional. It generally works out better for the friendlier AIs to get more planets.

I agree the AI needs "more" planets because it's generally building quite ineffectively, and does not understand how plan ahead for balanced ressource production. But isn't this not as much a problem of "how many planets" but of "how many building slots", as the AI tends to fill up its planets quickly according to its currents needs, and therefore e.g. ends up putting rad extractors, and only those, on designated research colonies with 98% rad? And o.c. it does in no way understand that 2 tiny domed colonies in a star system have no economical value whatsoever and are only useful as a military base ...
I feel that it might work much better to give the tiny/small/medium planets a bit of a boost, especially the domed ones, instead of having everyone be nice to each other and settle in the very same star system ... :

AI treaty conclusions
Having the AI be friend and make treaties with everyone can detrimental to the game: Not only that all the scattered colonies because of intersettling are a MM-PITA, running 150 turns on a big quadrant with 14 full AI (no neutrals) always had only ~3 wars going on, triggered by the xhenophobes etc. And that with thousands of ships milling around (and worsening end turn times) - effectively doing absolutely nothing !
Where's the fun, the action ???!!!
We need some hefty negative diplo modifiers for having the same planet type/atmosphere, and o.c. more Gas Giant / Ice Planet dwellers, as atm it's gas - ice - rock 1:3:9.
Aren't there some nice shipsets out there which could be used - I would gladly try to write up some race description and make some design suggestion, but have no clue about doing the AI files

Research Treaties
While cutting down the research areas to a handful of levels (compared to the stock game) surely makes things more managable and fun, yet it looks like it's overdone in some regard: research treaties below the "exchange current tech"-level, which only should be offered at best relation levels, are basically worthless, as quite some techs never will be traded at "2 levels old" (mostly the "barrier" techs, but hulls/engines are generally only researched to lvl3 as well..), and basically no tech will be traded with the "4 levels old" agreement.
IMHO, some tech levels should be added in again. Maybe empty "dummy" levels to keep the number of different components low, like those already present in some tech areas. On the other hand, with formula-driven values having more tech levels does not make much of a difference in that regard, right?

Typo:
Components.txt is missing a "%" character on line 5150 :
"Ability 2 Description := Plasma Missiles have a [%Amount1%]% defense bonus,... "

[NTJedi]

Hello Captain Kwok... I agree with Arralen on the AI treaty conclusions and Research Treaties. I've also recognized another problem with the AI opponents which comes in two parts.

A) AI opponents should use Fighter Bays for transporting cargo instead of Cargo Bays. The reason is because the AI opponents will have ships with Troops and Fighters which almost always results in all the cargo being lost in battle. If the AI opponents were using the Fighter Bays instead at least some of those fighters could make a fighting difference before dying. The AI opponents just aren't smart enough to safely utilize the large size from cargo bays.

B) AI opponents with ships carrying cargo should drop off their cargo during battle for planets which belong to the AI opponents. In a recent battle at one of the planets belonging to the AI opponent, it had one of its cargo ships in space holding lots of fighters and troops. Instead of unloading those on its nearby planet it marched towards my 15+ ships with 50+ fighters. The AI opponent foolishly lost all those troops and fighters. I realize improving the AI opponent for the battlefield may be more difficult, but this would be helpful.

B)

[Captain Kwok]

Arralen,

Working on identifying what the issue might be. In that current game, the Terrans shouldn\'t be offering anything more than a typical non-intercourse type treaty based on their current anger level/mood towards your empire. I\'ve put on a thread at SE.net to gather any additional information on when this sort of behavior is encountered.

NTJedi,

I\'ve re-implemented the previous AI task force scheme for the next patch and future versions. It will send transport ships in fleets to flee when in a fleet.

[Arralen]

Kwok, are you a genius, did you achieve real AI or are there even more problems with the AI being that friendly to each other and the player ?!?!

AI treaty conclusions - again
Situation: I finally gave in and signed a intersettling treaty with the Urka-Tal, which are several systems away and ,like me, battling the Sithrak. And because I was a bit behind in tech to them (and had half of what the leading Abbidon had, which have a tech lead of at least 30% in every game), I added a "current tech exchange" to the treaty.
Next turn, I gave them 2 minor techs, got a couple from them and everything looked o.k., but unspectacular. But during the next 10 turns, more and more techs started to trickle in, up to the point that I switched to researching racial techs and still get>1 standard tech per turn.
So I logged into some AI turns and looked what happened: Obviously, the Abbidon have a good lead with 206K research and 173 tech levels. But the Ukra-Tal (43k research) signed tech exchange treaties with me (57k research, current tech exch.), the Norak (85k research, curr.t.e.), the Xi'Chung (18k,4 lvls old), Jraenar (28k, ALL tech!!), Drushoka (42k, ALL tech!!) ... totalling 256k research .. quite enough to equalize the Abbidon research lead in a reasonable amount of time!
Now I wonder if the AI did that on purpose. Sadly, I have the nagging suspicion that it happened just by chance ... and because the AI is too eager to sign exchange/intersettling/etc treaties.
Furthermore I feel this changes the nature of SE5 completely, turning it from a more-or-less militaristic strategy game into a game of diplomacy (pun? whats that?). Now if I was sure that alliances, especially with the AI, would work correctly, .. are all those issues worked out with the latest patch now? Even if they do - do we really want to change SE5 that much?
I think it would be a more "safe" route to let the AI prefer smaller groups which then fight each other for dominance - presumed that something could be done about the Abbidons being the leader in every game, which has to do with the planet type/atmosphere distribution between races and in the galaxies I guess.(I'll check both if I find the time and motivation )

.. plus AIs colonists handling:
More on the situation: The Ukra-Tal wanted migration as well, and now colonists from all over the galaxy are starting to move in on my planets, allowing me to un-dome lots of colonies - is the AI able to do that, I'm pretty sure it isn't .. at least the Urka-Tal only have 2 obsolete small transports running, which are shuffling colonists out from the home worlds at a snails pace. No sign that they care about the immigrants.
IMHO, the AI still needs to build more pop transports. I'm not sure if something could be done 'bout the migration which strongly prefers the human player as long as the AI does not understand how to handle the different breathers.


AI (commanded) transports on the battlefield

Originally Posted by Captain Kwok

AIs give Troop Transports a weapon to keep them together with the other warships when they are approaching a planet to capture it. It sometimes helps to avoid accidental glassings of the target or protect the troop transport.
...
I\'ve re-implemented the previous AI task force scheme for the next patch and future versions. It will send transport ships in fleets to flee when in a fleet.

Dunno what those latest changes will do, but at least for my fleets in simultanious mode the following works much better than arming troop transports:
Troop Transport
- small freighter hull for max speed
- min. number of cargo pods
- adding PD(1, better 2), combat sensors
- adding shields, armor
- setting "capture planet"

Task Force
- set to "attack: capture planet", "defense: don't get hurt"
- "capture planet" uses (break form. immediatly: false / core ships lost: true / drop troops: true / capture ships: false / launch units: true / retreat: move in group)
- transport as leader
- add 2-4 beam attack ships (those should have PD as well)
- 50% beamers into core, 50% beamers into escort
- formation "attack: flying V", "defense: **unsure, depending on no. of ships"

Other Task Forces
- set to "optimal/maximum range"

Every time I tried, the Ground Assault TFs headed straight for the planet to drop troops and retreated promptly afterwards, and the Combat TFs turned away as soon as there was no enemy unit left fit for fighting spaceborne targets. I'm not sure, but I think the GA TF even regrouped to "don't get hurt/defense" tactics/formation.
No planet was accidently glassed, though I presume that could happen if enough missile ships launch at a planet to kill the last assets present which could fire at ships. Nothing that could be done 'bout that I guess. S*** happens ...
And in no combat situation the troop transport (or the whole GA taskforce) tried to mingle with enemy ships, unless it found itself stuck within a group after WH transit. And even then the GA taskforce tried to retreat from the battle as fast as it could.
IMHO this is exactly the wanted behaviour for troop transports, isn't it?

[Arralen]

planet / atmosphere type distribution and gas giant dwellers
Why is it that the Abiddon are 1st in every game, unless the EEE are in as well - then both are leading the score list 90% of the time.

Well, let's asume the planet/atmosphere type distribution is 100% flat with the only exception that there are no planets with the combination of "gas giant / no atmosphere", for obvious reasons.
Because the %tage of planets with breathable atmosphere for gas giant dwellers therefore is 25% instead of 20% of planets, they get a facility space bonus of 11% for free !!

Furthermore, I'm not entirely convinced that the dstribution is entirely "flat", but the random factor seems quite high so I have to generate several max size "paradise" quadrants and count planets to get meaningful statistics.
Will take some time, if I ever finish that, because it's tedious and time-consuming work. Unless someone figures a way to dump the quadrant data to a file and run it through a script to grab the numbers ...

[Captain Kwok]

An AI that is behind in tech will seek out the treaty element for technology exchange. It's unfortunate though that SE5's treaty element is actually exchange of tech levels, it would be much better for the game if it were just a trade of tech points.

Both the Abbidon and EEE are friendly peaceful races, so they tend to make the most treaties and gain points through trade and tech exchange.

The AI does un-dome its planets and actually quite quickly as well. It spaces non-breathing population when a breathable population is on the same planet. It does know enough to not drop non-breathing races on un-domed planets afterwards. It also uses idle Cargo Transports or Colony Ships as population transports.

[Arralen]

Originally Posted by Captain Kwok

An AI that is behind in tech will seek out the treaty element for technology exchange. It's unfortunate though that SE5's treaty element is actually exchange of tech levels, it would be much better for the game if it were just a trade of tech points.

Interestingly enough, the Urka-Tal only asked for "recent" tech, IIRC, it was I who switched to "current tech" and they agreed - and then within the next dozend turns they made tech exchange treaties with the other mid-level rated empires, just enough to beat the Abiddon.

Both the Abbidon and EEE are friendly peaceful races, so they tend to make the most treaties and gain points through trade and tech exchange.

Read carefully ... the Abiddon do not have a single tech exchange treaty, but intersettle with everyone but me Yet they have the tech lead since the first few turns, simply they have 11% better planets (EEE are not in the game).
What amazes me most is that the Urka-Tal actually got an alliance together to keep up with the Abiddon ... if this is really deliberate behaviour of the AI, is great! (Even though they make no move to found a "real" alliance )
Now I wonder what happens if the Abiddons actually get "overtaken" .. will the AI nullify those tech exchange treaties? Guess it will take some time to find out, because turn generation times are >10 minutes now, and climbing :/

The AI does un-dome its planets and actually quite quickly as well. It spaces non-breathing population when a breathable population is on the same planet. It does know enough to not drop non-breathing races on un-domed planets afterwards.

- it does space pop o.k., it seems. What is a shame,btw., but can't be helped *sigh*
- wasn't able to check if it does not re-dome, because those 2-4 small pop transports always seem to run between the homeworlds and some outlying colonies. Chances to "catch" one that is about to drop on an undomed colony seem slim ... especially if that "wrong" pop gets spaced again next turn

It also uses idle Cargo Transports or Colony Ships as population transports.

Sorry to disappoint you here, but it doesn't.
Might be because it always builds so many troops that it simply has no idle troop transports, and it seems it tries to colonise worlds which have been empty 100 turns ago, then after a flight time of 15 turns or more finds them taken already and assigns the next colonisation target, again 15 turns or more away - so the colonisers never get idle as well, or maybe only very late in the game. (but by then planets have been glassed, and the whole thing starts again).
However, I looked through the AI turns and did not find ONE troop transport or colony ship that did pop transport runs ... .
And with e.g. the Abiddons having 3 homeworlds with maxed out pop, 114 colonies and 4(!) small pop transports, their pop movement capacity is clearly way too low. More in order IMHO would be one ship per 10-15 planets.