AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[oleg]

No, I don't want a super-killer AI,which is easily doable in AIC. But tt just makes my aesthetic sence cringe when I see the AI to research, say Ice colony but been unable to colonize nice, jucy planets because of the 3-4 Rock colonizers chocking up the construction file

It just looks stupid, typical of Ai. Multi purpose colonizer solves this idiotism and enforces the impression you are fighting worthy opponent.

In the end, it will not boost up AI very much, in most situations AIC AI avoids "dead end colonizers" but not always and it would still add a nice touch. Just MHO.

[ July 12, 2004, 19:41: Message edited by: oleg ]

[Yimboli]

Originally posted by oleg:
I do not think human players need universal colony modules. Humans build colony ships to colonize planets and should know better what type is needed.

I think you misunderstood my motivation for making the suggestion. When I come across a system in a game, I usually colonize the largest breathable planet, set up a debarkation depot, and go on my merry way. It is not until I have a solid economy that I worry about colonizing the non-breathable planets. Thus, in my game right now, I have whole systems with only a couple planets colonized.

My task now is to colonize them. So to queue up all the colony ships I'm going to need in a system, I first must click on every planet in the system, write down the number of Rock, Gas, and Ice planets, and queue them up accordingly for construction amongst whatever spaceyards I have available for constructing the colony ships.

My suggestion is solely aimed at convenience. A universal colony hull would eliminate the mundane task of recording the number rock, gas, and ice planets in a system, and ensuring you are making the right amount in your space yards. With a universal colony hull, you need only count the *number* of planets you want to colonize in a system.

I understood you to assert that humans would be more powerful with a universal hull. Perhaps I misunderstood you? I don't see how we would be a more challenging adversary vs. the AI with universal hulls.

Sure, we can count the number of rock, gas, and ice planets easily enough. But why?

Your comments are appreciated.

~Tim

PS: why does everyone capitalize my name? not that it bothers me... i'm just fascinated by the sudden trend.

[oleg]

You misudersood me. Univ. colony module is exeptionally usefull for AI, not for humans.

As to "debarcation depot" strategies, I can not commend. I never play with this option and consider it as a blashemy of Proportions idea. I would rather go back to unmoded SE than cheat AI like that !

[JLS]

Originally posted by Yimboli:

I think you misunderstood my motivation for making the suggestion. When I come across a system in a game, I usually colonize the largest breathable planet, set up a debarkation depot, and go on my merry way. It is not until I have a solid economy that I worry about colonizing the non-breathable planets. Thus, in my game right now, I have whole systems with only a couple planets colonized.
My suggestion is solely aimed at convenience. A universal colony hull would eliminate the mundane task of recording the number rock, gas, and ice planets in a system, and ensuring you are making the right amount in your space yards. With a universal colony hull, you need only count the *number* of planets you want to colonize in a system.

Absolutely, the UC is agreed by most - to be a fine Idea and addition for the AIC Human Players. It really takes no options away from Human Players and it is a fine {{{trophy/reward}}} if you will, to those that have accomplished all three colonizer type techs

- - -

I understood you to assert that humans would be more powerful with a universal hull. Perhaps I misunderstood you? I don't see how we would be a more challenging adversary vs. the AI with universal hulls.

I am not sure I would go as far as to say “an assertion“: however, with se4 v1.91 Multi Colonizers may be fine for other MODs AI and it has never been my desire to remark in any negative understanding, on another designed MOD on Public Forum.

My Last post defined the AIC AI and absence of need for additional SYSTEMS and the Planets located with-in.

Currently the AIC AI will compete for Systems to that of Human Players - Moreover, this is to desired limits (that is defined by a pre-programmed time). The AIC AI needs no more Planets then it may accomplish in this time and if this AIC AI Colonization doctrine is altered:
It may change the expected competitive results of AI vs. Human Players on some default Quad Maps and may justify the need for MAPS that exceed se4 true default values and thereby loosing the structured intent of the se4 default map levels and design.

Exceeding Colonies from the AI will put undue pressures on the Human Players in smaller or moderate Quad maps: perhaps forcing an aggressive stance from friendly AI Races and that may be earlier then the Human Players (and to that of some AI Players) may want. As it is - the Humans Players on average in AIC, do dictate the options for total WAR with the less violent AIC se4 races.

The AIC can have many more Planets (Any Number to that more then the Human Players and for those that wish not to consider above - may wish to Consider the Political effects and the comfort levels that the AI (review se4 AI settings) may now have and the responsiveness of any previous setting and that this in other mods may now need to be readdressed as to maintain the integrity of the Political files.

And above all, with the hopes that this may contribute to the close of this item for the AIC AI:

Originally posted by JLS:
We have always seen the AIC AI Players Colonize very well compared to that of Human Players and we all know the capabilities.
Certainly we can have them colonize more - Moreover, this will only deny the Human Players of Valuable Resource Systems and Planets in the Mid and End Game as a result - this must be cautioned.

Clearly it is not more Resources, Intel or Research the AIC AI needs - Since se4 v1.91 I am forever throttling this AI Balance back - as you may have noticed.

This (may) now also apply in many ways to all existing se4 v1.91 MODS with applicable and specific - desired AI players


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Reference Ulkra se4 default AI DATA FILE - Anger and Settings :

=================================================
AI ANGER DATA FILE - Default

This file governs how the anger of an empire changes based on different events
caused by another player. Amounts can be positive or negative changes to the current
anger level with the responsible player.

Per Attack Location
Amount per planet of another player that we want.
"~"

=================================================
*BEGIN*
=================================================
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Amount := 510
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Num Turns := 20
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Amount := 610
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Num Turns := 40
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Amount := 0
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Num Turns := 0
Turns to Wait until next attack := 6
Maximum Maintenance Percent of Revenue := 80
Maximum Research Point Generation := 100000
Maximum Intelligence Point Generation := 100000
Maximum Systems to Defend at a Time := 3
Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets := True
Get Angry Over Enemy Colonizable Planets := False
Percentage of Allied Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 10
Percentage of Enemy Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 0
Personality Group := 1
Ships don't move through minefields := false
Ships don't move through restricted systems := false
Clear orders on encounter enemy := false
Clear orders on encounter all := false
Percentage of total satellites to keep as planetary cargo := 40
Percentage of total drones to keep as planetary cargo := 40
Number Of Anti-Ship Drones Per Target := 3
Number Of Anti-Planet Drones Per Target := 3
Maximum Anti-Ship Drone Target System Distance := 5
Maximum Anti-Planet Drone Target System Distance := 5

=================================================
*END*
=================================================

[ July 14, 2004, 14:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Mephisto]

BTW: The colonizer bug should be history since the Last patch.

[JLS]

A few Emails indacted this; however, I wanted to test this myself before replying yo Oleg.

Thanks Mephisto.

Oleg the AI in AIC and if not all MODS - WILL build continues (desired set amount) Colonizers as well and as per TDM's and Master B's instructions to me/us on how to set up the AI V-Construction File some years ago.

[ July 14, 2004, 14:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
As to "debarcation depot" strategies, I can not commend. I never play with this option and consider it as a blashemy of Proportions idea. I would rather go back to unmoded SE than cheat AI like that !

What you recommend for the UC just for the AI Players is in fact an Enhancement for the AI and one that the AIC players do not agree with, as a whole.


The Star Liners are there for all Players in AIC as with other Transport options.

AIC Immigrations (auto POP transport option) are for Players that do not want the Micro Management of POP Transports and this has been well received.

Regards to AIC AI Minesweeping "enhancements" - this has been debated and also has been addressed.
I and many prefer the TDM introduced AI method of Minesweeping for stock se4 and is the absolute BEST in the overall.

However, AIC is not stock se4 and as such - new ideas will be introduced with MODS as a conduit



[ July 14, 2004, 14:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by JLS:

quote:

---

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Hmm, I'm always slow to build up on my medical technicology. Right now, I have Bio Med II (?). I guess I'll have to research more medical now, if I want my population to grow. Thanks.

With a Bio Med Facility built in System I would expect your Reproduction rate to be near or well above 20%.

If you are playing a Star Liner type Game -there use is the key to your GROWTH and Possibly your survival.

- - - -
If Star Liners are not for you, Play AIC free starting option OS* enabled - and your Growth will be extreamly steady and without falter. And you do not need many if any Starliners at all -->(POP TRANSPORT FREE if you wish)<-- Trade any surplus resources and now build Combat Ships instead of Starliners

Gives the benifits of - Immigration
= = = = =
Reference

Name := SO*
Description := With *HP* above, this option will result in a more robust game that requires LESS Micro Management and logistics. Your game will be less dependent on Star Liners with this option.

Name := Immigration
Group := Applied Science
Description := Improved Planet population increases. By means of Immigration and Naturalization.
Maximum Level := 1
Level Cost := 100
Start Level := 1

---

Thanks for the info. As of right now, I just stopped using Starliners, and am now using large transports. Not only can I get them to hold more people (right now it's 3 million), I've got them moving at movement 8. It's still slow in getting people to my newly colonized systems as I expand, but it's better than the starliners. Next time I play this mod, I'll try your method.

[ July 14, 2004, 21:36: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
As of right now, I just stopped using Starliners, and am now using large transports. Not only can I get them to hold more people (right now it's 3 million), I've got them moving at movement 8. It's still slow in getting people to my newly colonized systems as I expand, but it's better than the starliners.

I like the Star Liners and don't play with OS*.
And I do the same thing a FEW DOZEN slow and cheap Starliners and a bunch of Fast Tranports

[oleg]

I like non-conected games. Population shipping is no problem - open warp points close to HW and each other

But when bad comes come... you will regret it