MBT's

[DRG]

Well, it's interesting that it is being reported "the transfer of tanks from the Pentagon’s depots is being considered" as that would imply sending the full armour package UNLESS "the Pentagon" has some "export" versions tucked away someplace.

Once again........"Wait and see"

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It would not imply that at all. It simply would by-pass the contractors process as I've already posted that in effect said if the tanks aren't available from Army stocks/depots that the process would much more involve the contractors which would delay the process to up to a year or more. OLD NEWS HERE as already posted. Also Ref. 3 below covers this.

DU Armor just like any other layered Armor application it is simply a "Bolt On/Bolt Off" process. The difficulty will be in the handing of the DU Armor application which will make the process a little longer for that number of tanks I'm thinking something around 3-4 months.

For every export tank I've built to this point with more to come when I don't get distracted by suppositional interpretations of sources, I have for the following seen countless similar verbiage for EVERY TANK I've looked at thus far in the export tank process going back to last year. LEOPARD (Pick one of current service as same for others listed.)/ABRAMS/K2/TYPE 10/CHALLENGER 2/LeClerc/MERKAVA/ARJUN and that's just the "Good Guys". So here we go "CLASSIFIED, OF UNKNOWN ORGIN, SECRET, RESTRICTED DATA, UNPUBLISHED, NO INFORMATION AVAILIABLE. "

I should hope for the UMPTEENTH TIME the point has been made.

But if not...
https://time.com/6250099/abrams-tanks-ukraine-biden/
https://news.yahoo.com/us-send-ukrai...200133242.html
(Ukrainian Source.)
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...tanks-00079648
https://www.manufacturing.net/techno...in-ukraine-war
(This is from our TANK FACTORY EVERYTHING I TALKED ABOUT IS RIGHT HERE.)
https://www.newsweek.com/abrams-leop...-first-1776927
(PRILIMINARY TIMELINE.)
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/27/europ...-ml/index.html
(ABRAMS COULD BE MORE THAN A YEAR SAME AS I've ALREADY POSTED PREVIOUSLY.)

At this point I truly don't know what more I can do.

However as not everyone uses DU Armor, I fully support that if the Ukraine gets the LEOPARD A15 WE give them the best version of it from the OOB same for the LEOPARD 2A4/2A5. We did this with the GEPARD.

But for the rest we build them. So currently I have built the Export versions of the K2/LEOPARD 2A7/2A7V Hybrid, LeClerc, (We) ABRAMS M1A2C last year AND already addressed M1A1/T-55S already submitted and almost finished the CHALLENGER 2. Also finished is a NEW tank the K1A2.

THAT'S WHAT'S TO COME WITHOUT ANY FURTHER DISTACTIONS.

Time is getting short I just wish the posts would end or else Andy and Don and some others will never get our work done so all the things that are required to be finished before the Patch Release can be accomplished, we've been there before, I'm thinking June at the rate the information is coming. That's just me.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

In 8 hrs. we're on the road it's been four years since we've been to Spring Training w/COVID/LIMITED SEATING and last year the STRIKE now this year we get back into balance and all is right with the Universe again.

Normalcy is a wonderful thing even something as subtle as this that we've been doing now for over 25yrs. now. We all need this in our lives, and it is good.

But before this I leave with this article that builds upon my last post and provides a reasonable timeline on tanks that will probably not be around for both countries Spring Offensive.

LEOPARD 2A4 will be the first to see combat as it stands now, and some of the tanks are in Ukraine now with the goal filling out a full battalion of them and getting them trained up on combined ops as is occurring with the T-55S battalion that's been at it since last Nov/Dec which is due to conclude shortly and it being sent to the NE of Ukraine in March.

This is also seeming to indicate the LEOPARD 2A5 has for now dropped out of the conversation.

LEOPARD 2A6 Germany isn't ready to discuss any timeline for them at this time.

LEOPARD 1A5 well that's going to take a while as well as most haven't had their engines turned over in more than a decade. The German ones however are in better shape but there's another major issue as well more recently being reported so, "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" there better be a whole lot preying going on as there's not much 105mm ammo to go around for those tanks.

Poland is sending 60 PT-91 TWANDY (2 battalions -2.) tanks which should be in Ukrainian hands within the first 2 weeks of March.

MOD indicating CHALLENGER 2 is several months out before they reach the Ukraine.

Since I'm a little tired of feeling like the "bad guy" especially about the next tank I'll just leave the quote from the article...
"As for the 31 Abrams tanks promised by the U.S., they might not arrive in Ukraine this year at all."

"Army Secretary Christine Wormuth told reporters Thursday (23 Feb.) that the delivery timelines could push into well into 2024 at the earliest."

For all the reasons Ref. 3 in my last post discussed.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...4ec2337eed56bb

At best it's a mixed bag. Those 100's Russian captured tanks and the estimated 1/2+ of the tanks the Ukraine have left will be the ones that'll "hold the line" or start the next Ukrainian Offensive.

We might, though I asked earlier for "release" of the T-72B3 & T-72B3M for buy purposes to maybe reconsider some of those other Russian capture tanks of models the Ukraine doesn't have and "release" as well such as the T-80BV/T-80BVM
for buy purposes. They as I posted already field 1 full battalion of the T-80BVM from back in Mar/Apr 2022 with I believe was the 32nd MECH. Battalion (Which were in a couple of pictures sent for those units in my last submission.) .

I need to hit the rack before my sleep time = my drive time (NOT GOOD!!)

It's Peanuts and Cracker Jacks only for the next 5 day's CINCLANTHOME, BASEBALL and NOT BEING AT WORK FOR YOU FANS...
"IS THIS HEAVEN? NO, IT'S IOWA.", OK FLORIDA for US!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Pat

There is little point speculating on delivery for anything until it

A/ arrives

or

B/ Mid April when we are doing the final checks

It would be nice if things started being reported arriving but this is our reality ATM. FWIW I do know at least (1) Canadian 2A4 has been put on an air transport to Ukraine ( yeah.....big whoop but there is video of it being loaded and taking off but that could have been footage spliced together

SOMEBODY knows for SURE but it isn't me so all I can do is guesstimate dates until release then next year.......IF there is a next year...... adjust dates for all the incorrect guesstimate.

As frustrating as this all is for us, this is just a game, for Ukraine it's reality.......too many unknowns, too many promises

[zovs66]

This probably known here but I thought it was interesting:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...thermal-sights

[DRG]

As it turns out, the unit I have in the OOB for those t-62's matches that Thermal sight equivalent..........

[blazejos]

...... even ERA wasn't installed.

What's the point in adding it.... the other thousand+ wrecks strewn all over the countryside had ERA to little benefit as any decent ATGM is going to blast through them

Not having it may keep the crews from getting "over confident"



EDIT... Sorry Błażej. I thought I was "quoting" but apparently I hit the edit button instead

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I think the real issue is just their ERA isn't as good as they tried to convince the West it was. Very similar to all the stories that have been put on the web over the last several months about Putin dying and he's still here. Patton had an Army with a lot of tanks in England. The Germans were so concerned they tied down divisions thinking he was the "main show" at Calais, France. He never landed there with his Inflatable Tanks.

In a word Deception.

But a important problem was what several of us uncovered about the the ERA bags that were to filled with materials to provide a non-explosive ERA along the lines of NERA. What was found was they were empty or filled with flour etc. while the money to develop that ERA went elsewhere.

Those crews I'm sure felt confident and found out the hard way they had nothing at long, literally.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Those crews I'm sure felt confident and found out the hard way they had nothing at long, literally.

I've seen stuff on cardboard "body armor", wood blocks packaged as plastic explosives and other shenanigans. Seems the corruption evidently inherent in the Russian system is really coming back to bite them since they couldn't bluff or bulldoze their way to victory in a few days/weeks.

[MarkSheppard]

From Twitter

"Great overhead angle of the Polish Leopard 2PL, showing very nicely the extent of the additional armour package on the frontal arc of the turret, and the relatively unique turret bustle shape"