Bug Bug Thread: Discussion - Page 158

Edi · #**1571** March 4th, 2008, 07:21 AM

Twiceborn demons added to the shortlist spell section.

ano · #**1572** March 5th, 2008, 04:09 AM

When you cast Carrion reanimation with Lanka, only soulless Vanaras are raised. Not sure that it is a bug but I can't see the reason why they don't get all the kinds of the undead monkeys with this spell like with reanimating.
I think, this also applies to other non-human nations with specific undead troops.
Upd: one more issue with Carrion reanimation. Soulless commander has undead leadership 40 but this spell revives 100 undeads. So, if you move someone from the squad, you won't be able to put him back.

And one more thing... Spell "life after death" creates soulless from normal units that die in combat, but after combat those soulless stay in the same squad even if commander has no undead leadership.

Edi · #**1573** March 5th, 2008, 08:21 AM

Reanimation lists are nation specific, so the behavior of carrion reanimation is not a bug per se, but WAD. I suppose the lists could be tweaked, but I don't know for certain. It would depend on how the spell is tied to the reanimation lists and whether it can handle nonstandard reanimation lists the same as the default one.

The behavior of soulless commander is also WAD. Spells that summon units in that manner allow leadership capacity to be exceeded initially, but after that situation is altered, the game forces standard behavior. This is why you can't move the units back.

The behavior of Life After Death is, from what I can see, WAD. Units are assigned to squads on the basis of their individual unit identifier (the invisible one that keeps track of magic, afflictions etc). When they turn to soulless due to Life After Death, the monster ID changes to soulless, but the unique identifier stays the same. Therefore they must stay in the same squad or problems will start to occur. The alternative would be dropping them. After they are removed from the squad (i.e. unassigned), normal leadership rules start to apply.

ryo_akashi · #**1574** March 5th, 2008, 11:12 PM

For LA Argatha

Cave Lord (1451) will #secondtmpshape to Cave Drake (522). Meaning that, the Cave Lord will change to a Cave Drake upon suffering fatal wound. The Cave Drake will be removed at the end of combat and count as casualty.

Cave Knight (1450) will #secondshape to Cave Drake (522). The Cave Knight will change to a Cave Drake upon suffering fatal wound. However, the Cave Drake will be remain AFTER the end of combat.

Considering difference of behaviour of the two units, is this intended by the designer?

Also, is it intended that all the spider riders in Machaka uses #secondshape to either Great Spider (884) or Hunter Spider(886)? Considering that there are the spiders have no upkeep cost and huge hp, this encourages ppl to suicide spider riders into spiders...

zzcat · #**1575** March 6th, 2008, 01:07 AM

C'tis's description in all three ages said they prefer Heat+1, but actually they prefer heat+2 in game.

Edi · #**1576** March 6th, 2008, 02:19 AM

Thanks for both of these.

The spider rider and black hunter secondshape thing is an oversight. The spider forms are the correct ones, but obviously they need to have gold cost added. I'll add that to the shortlist.

The cave drake thing I need to ask about, but if it works one way for Agartha, it should probably work the same way for Machaka and the Hunter Lords.

The C'tis Heat scale thing is an error. The descriptions were largely brought from Dominions 2 where C'tis did prefer Heat 1, but apparently it has been changed for Dom3 and the old description has been left. I'll add that.

vfb · #**1577** March 6th, 2008, 02:32 AM

Are you sure it's not intentional? What are spiders going to want a salary for?

Riderless Cave Drakes don't require gold upkeep either.

The riderless spiders have an MR of 5, I think. So it's not all good news when the rider dies. In fact, it's pretty terrible news if you're up against any MR-type magic or missiles.

Edi · #**1578** March 6th, 2008, 02:42 AM

True. I need to ask about it. IF the cave drakes are changed, anew monster is needed, because 522 is also the one that comes from the summoning spell.

Endoperez · #**1579** March 6th, 2008, 05:27 AM

Quote:

ryo_akashi said:
Considering difference of behaviour of the two units, is this intended by the designer?

Cave Captain's drake would be a commander. While Cave Drake patrol dropping from the sky with the help of Magic Carpet is a cool idea and worked pretty well for the guy who did it (I think it was in DomII and with Gift of Reason), it's still silly.

ryo_akashi · #**1580** March 6th, 2008, 03:56 PM

Just to clarify, the main question is...

Are the following units using #secondshape as intended?

Spider Rider (885)
Spider Knight (886)
Spider Lord (887)
Black Hunter (889)
Hunter Lord (890)
Cave Knight (1450)

It would be a moot point to change the upkeep cost for the spiders and cave drake if the above units are using #secondtmpshape. Most of the other rider/monster units (War Lobster (211), Gryphon Rider (612), Serpent Cataphract (764), Chariot Archer (1079), Tiger Rider (1140), Androphag (1176)) use #secondtmpshape. I would not be surprised if the #secondshape was unintended.

But hey, it could always be a feature for Mach and LA Arg...