Perpetuality - 62 Player MegaGame (Finished!)

[Meglobob]

Velusion said:
Looks like I'll be looking for a permanent sub for LA Atlantis. *le sigh*

Velusion said:
Which sucks for me because LA Atlantis was helping me against LA R'lyeh. But that's how the cookie crumbles.

Sorry, I did not mean to effect the game so much by subbing for Lanka. I will sub for Lanka if you want me too but if it would be better to keep LA Atlantis, then I will withdraw. I don't want to spoil/upset a major power block within the game.

Really, I am not going to do anything that has a negative effect on La Atlantis other than stop the destructive war with Ctis, which is not benefiting Lanka as for as I can tell.

Baalz said:
Oh well, I'd rather stomp on Bob anyway.

[Xietor]

Lanka does not even border LA Atlantis. And in fact is nowhere close to LA Atlantis. I am quite sure LA Atlantis' departure has nothing to you with you playing Lanka.

I doubt K himself would say the war between us has been profitable for him. There have been horrific losses on both sides, and zero progress made either way in terms of land gained/lost.

[Velusion]

Meglobob said:
Sorry, I did not mean to effect the game so much by subbing for Lanka. I will sub for Lanka if you want me too but if it would be better to keep LA Atlantis, then I will withdraw. I don't want to spoil/upset amajor power block within the game.

I'm always glad to have a dedicated sub fill in for a departing player.

Any sub will always change the status quo that can't be helped. People just have to adjust...

[DrPraetorious]

I'd certainly be happier. In many ways I prefer untrustworthy opponents, I've played enough diplomacy to greatly respect dishonesty, but the whole situation is complicated at this point.

Lanka is certainly in a strong enough position to stale for a turn - or Meglobob could take a turn anyway, since he's just going to tread water for a turn it shouldn't make any difference. I'll see if I can get in touch with K IRL.

However, Frank might just be using this as an excuse to bow out over work, too - I know he's been pretty stretched and might just have been staying in to honor the many, many agreements he's had. With Frank out of the picture it makes much less of a difference (to me at least) whether or not I can cut deals with Lanka.

His insistence that he won't tolerate subs from within game - while reasonable in principle - falls apart because there simply *isn't* anyone else here to sub.

I do think that with the combination of fewer people, more complex turns (visions of void spectres are dancing in my head) and summer drawing to a close it wouldn't be unreasonable to switch to 72h turns for those of us tied to the school year - maybe not now, but soon.

P.S. - DOOM!

[Velusion]

I've had a few people mention 72 hour turns. We'll go ahead move to them at turn 65 (7 turns).

[Baalz]

*shrug* I don't really know what all went on, but knowing Frank's history of poor sportsmanship this sudden bailing smells like his characteristic huff about something he doesn't like. Since he won't respond in the forum (because he left in a huff over something he didn't like) I'll just assume that's what it is. Not at all to disparage anyone else who needs to bow out....but there's a big difference in how jutetrea's been trying for over a week to find a sub - and playing in the mean time - and what I have to assume is a deliberate attempt to inconvenience as many people as possible by suddenly destabilizing one of the largest power blocks in this huge game.

[Meglobob]

Ok then, I should be able to do Lankas turn by the deadline with an hour or two to spare. From then on 48 hrs is no problem to me.

The entire idea of me subbing is to fill a gap not to create one, so if Frank or anyone else of the alliance can find a alternative sub for Lanka within the next couple of turns, lets say 3 turns. I will step aside for there sub.

Frank has obviously put a lot of effort into the game and the alliance, so I would not want him to leave the game because of me subbing for Lanka. This would be very unfair and defeat the object of me subbing. So I hope he stays in the game or if he leaves it is for life/job reasons.

K has left Lanka in extremly good shape and a big thanks to him for providing a handy checklist of whats going on with the nation.

[Xietor]

"Sent to: Meglobob
There is no reason for you to withdraw.

While Lanka was a member of la atlantis alliance, there can be no expectation that subs also remain in an alliance with other people.

Actually the purpose of a sub is to play the race to the best of his ability as he sees fit. In other words, to play the race in a manner that best benefits that race-not someone else."

And here is my response to that. Now if you determine it is in Lanka's best interest to continue the war-that is fine by me. I told you that in my 1st message. Heck, does K even think that continuing the war with Ctis is in Lanka's best interest?

Even original players bail out on alliances at times-only one player can win. By his own admission, Dr. P likes dishonesty in diplomacy, so should his allies be surprised one day when the knife slides home?

Why should a sub be held to a higher standard than the original player?

I also strongly suspect LA Atlantis is quitting over something he does not like in game. But I think it sends the wrong signal to give in to his threat of taking his ball and going home. The fact is-he was never going to win this game anyway. I was not going to let him.

[DrPraetorious]

Xietor, I'm going to have to disagree.

Personally, I wouldn't be willing to accept a sub who wouldn't honor my alliances and crush my enemies. If that were the option, I'd give all my stuff to an ally and go CPU.

In the obvious example of the war between you and C'tis, this means Lanka won't be paying Atlantis back for the extensive favors that Atlantis did for Lanka in the past. In a sense this is good, because I think people honor their agreements too scrupulously and that cooperation should be riskier. OTOH, I'd be pissed off if someone subbed for me and then screwed over my allies, as this is not something I'd do.

This is impossible to adjudicate except by the person-who-is-being-subbed-for; maybe Lanka was planning to betray LA Atlantis anyway, I certainly can't know for sure. But the sub should obey the diplomatic instructions of the subee, which obviously I haven't seen. It seems unlikely to me that Meglobob's stated intentions are in accord with what K would've allowed, but that's just speculation on my part. If K included no diplomatic info, that may have been what he had in mind.

Anyway, yes, Frank *is* in a funk, no question. He generally gets worse when he's driving an ambulance.

[Evilhomer]

I always give even my temporary subs rather loose ideas about what I want - whats the fun in playing a game where you are not allowed to play the way you want ?.

I think its obvious that a permanent sub needs to honor trade agreements (say if gems or money is owed in some way), and NAP as well - else than that he/she should be allowed to do whatever they please.