Intergalactic Civil War !!??

[chewy027]

Well I figure 150 is a good round number. The vote will be sent in in 3 days so if you want to get your 2 cents in head on over. If you don't know anything about this idea read the overview below then vote.

Almost asleep

[chewy027]

Just so anyone who is new to this post doesn't have to go all the way to the back, here is a summary of what has been discussed and suggested for the Civil War idea. If you are a regular Subscriber to this thread than please skim it once to make sure I didn't miss anything. I have tried to give credit to everyone for their ideas.

Also, check just below this overview for the current discussions

First Point -- The original idea was to have an empire be able to split into two empires if the homeworld was captured. It was later suggested by Str8_Gain that if the empire is
big enough than it could split into more than two. The rebelling factions would use the same shipstyle as the empire they broke off from except with different ship and flag colors. -Lucanos Also, this feature could be toggled on or off in the game setup in case you don't like it .-Mac5732 and others And if you start with more than one planet only one would be the Homeworld instead of all of them. -Trachmyr and Dathstalker


Second Point -- Many things have been discussed as to what should trigger the civil war. Here they are.

1 If your homeworld/galactic capital gets captured or destroyed. This would automatically cause a percentage of your empire (depending on your size) to break off and form a new empire. This is the way it's handled in the Civ games.

2 If your regional capital gets captured or destroyed then a percentage of that system would break away.

Note: if you defened the planets with the capitals on them very well, then you could avoid triggers one and two. Also, triggers 1 and 2 would not be influenced by happiness.

3 Happiness trigger: If 4 or more planets at a single time are rioting throughout the empire and they are within close proximity to eachother then the happiness trigger would go into effect. This trigger would follow a rule set similar to the ones posted below. If you keep your pops happy, you don't have to worry about this trigger.

4 if you become the MEE then after a set amount of turns you split unless you are a
bloodthirsty society. -Baal
(this trigger is not liked by all, give us your opinion)


Third Point -- Many rule sets have been suggested as to how the happiness trigger should be implemented. Here are snips of some suggestions (they are pretty long)

from Trachmyr's post

1) It would start with the same event that causes a planet to break away and become a neutral.

2) After one planet "breaks away", then each other planet in the system is checked to
see if they join... All Rioting/angry planets join 100% of the time, unhappy/Displeased planets join 50% of the time, Indiffrent planets join 25% of the time (happier planets do not join).

NOTE: Your HOMEWORLD will never join, but captured Homeworlds are 25% more likly to
join.

3) It is now determined if the new empire will be a neutral or a FULL empire... If the
planets have a shipyard and have a Empire Score of say 20K (This should be changeable
in setting.txt) or perhaps the empire is worth at least 10% of the original empire (again changeable), then the Empire is a FULL empire... if not, it is only a neutral.

4) If the new empire is a Full Empire, then more "checks" are made. All adjacent systems
are now checked, at the same %'s as above... if atleast 1 planet converts, then that
system is claimed by the new empire, and all systems adjacent to that one is checked...
so, on and so forth... if happiness is low then it could spread across your entire empire.

5)As for ships that join the new empire, only vessels in systems that now have planets of the new empire have a chance to convert. All ships in the same sector as a planet,retain the loyalty of that planet... ships in sectors with out planets have a chance to convert equal to: (# of planets converted in system) out of (# of planets loyal + # of
planets converted).

from dmm's post

1a) Your home planet should never rebel. That's just silly.

2a) Minor planets should be unlikely to start a rebellion. Riot, yes. Rebel, no. HOWEVER, ifthere is a major planet nearby that has rebelled, then they might JOIN the rebellion.

3a) Planets should not rebel if they are happy. Happy people don't rebel.

4a) The ruling species is unlikely to rebel. They are in power; why revolt and risk being
taken over by aliens?

5a) Planets that are close to the homeworld and/or have been part of the empire for a
long time are less likely to rebel.

6a) Planets that are economically dependent on the rest of the empire are less likely to
rebel. For instance, a planet with nothing but mines is less likely to rebel than a planet with balanced resource development and a shipyard.

1b) Former homeworlds of other empires should be more likely to rebel.

2b) Major planets (larger, more pop, better resources, more facilities) are more likely to be centers of rebellion.

3b) Unhappy planets should be more likely to rebel.

4b) Planets with a sizeable majority of an out-of-power species should be susceptible to
rebellion, even if the empire is treating them well. (Populating planets with captured
species would then carry a long-term risk to go along with the benefits.)

5b) Natural barriers like asteroid systems and black holes would encourage rebellion.
Being on the empire's periphery would encourage rebellion. Being newly acquired or newly colonized would encourage rebellion.

6b) Another empire nearby that presents good trading opportunities would make a planet
more likely to rebel, especially if there were no trade agreement in place.

from Mac5732's post

planet goes to rioting, then complete civil
disobedience, then insurrection. At insurrection, each turn increases the possibility of rebellion for that planet by increments of 5% accumulative. When it finaly does rebel, all planets in that system, no matter who they belong to drop 1 attitude from their current status and they in turn drop 1 attitude for say every 3 turns, until rebelling world is either re-taken or they in turn rebel and join the rebellion which in turn could creat a new system wide empire...

from chewy027' post

if x planets are rioting and they are at least adjacent to one other rioting planet's system, then the civil war trigger is pulled. Depending on the happiness of the other planets the revolt could spread throughout the empire.

some other ideas brought up

1 if you do a PPP intel project to more than one planet at a time than then those planets
will break off and and start their own full blown empire together. -Director Tsaarx

2 if the planet a conquered empire is on rebels then the rest of the conquered planets go along and reform their empire with their original racestyle. -Str8_Gain

3 if a player goes around glassing planets the people become very unhappy unless they
are bloodthirsty. -Baal
This would involve a new line in the happiness.txt -Trachmyr

4 two new facilities the palace/galactic capital, and the regional capital would be
implemented. -Magus38
The planet the regional cap facility was built on would act as a system capital. Likewise the galactic capital acts as the entire empires cap planet.

5 Their would only be one Homeworld/Capital colony type with a palace/galactic capital
on it if you start the game with more than one planet. The rest would be other colony
types.And the minimum pop for a galactic capital is 2000M -Deathstalker, Trachmyr, and
Mac5732

6 planets and moons orbiting aroung them have an equal chance to revolt. Just because a moon joins the other side doesn't mean the planet is, and vice versa - Puke

7 the happiness facilities would be tweaked as well as adding maybe one or two more
levels of happiness. This would help balance the happiness trigger. -Mac5732

8 once you build a regional cap facility you can't move it without a penalty to production or happiness. The galactic cap begins on the homeworld and stays there until it is destroyed.

Final thought -- Sorry this was so long but I figure it's better than going all the way to the beginning. If there is anything I missed please post in this thread and I will add it to this post.

As new ideas/suggestions are added I will upgrade this overview .

Thanks Chewy027

[chewy027]

well as seeing how there is some civil war discussion popping up in other threads i thought i'd let some newbies check this out.

I posted my thread overview just below this post so you newbies won't have to read the whole thread. Any new feedback is welcome.

I'll also bring back the vote thread so we can renew that.

[jimbob]

Quote: "2) After one planet "breaks away", then each other planet in the system is checked to
see if they join... All Rioting/angry planets join 100% of the time, unhappy/Displeased planets join 50% of the time, Indiffrent planets join 25% of the time (happier planets do not join)."

This I like. Simple ratios, very straight forward. Results in a nice cascading effect. Indifferent and displeased planets actually matter.

I'd add :
i) that any ships in orbit and troops on ground will decrease the probability of rebellion by a small arbitrary %
ii) if the planet contains aliens the probability of rebellion goes up by a significant but arbitrary %
iii) any troops on/ships orbiting a successfully rebelling planet defect to the rebels! (maybe a small % are loyal, so self destruct/disband?).

Thus, keeping control by military force is a large gamble. I think many military coups go something like this... the army is built up by a nasty dictator until they realize that they have so much power that they're really in control. Sometimes they grab power for the people but devolve into the power institution themselves. Usually they just grab power for themselves.

[Tenryu]

While I like the idea of some planets breaking away from the 'mother' empire, I am not sure what they should do after that.

Become a neutral race?

or, more interestingly,
turn violently against their former oppessor(you).

That could be cute. Build a huge intergalactic empire, then end up fighting yourself. LOL!

[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Tenryu ]

[chewy027]

actually that question is addressed. Just have to find it in the summary Tenryu

[ZeroAdunn]

I like the first setup, I vote for keeping section 4 of the idea. I agree that if a planet has an alien race on it it should be more likely to rebel or join a rebelion (possibly 25% modifier)

Some ideas:

Every turn a system goes without a spaceport it should become 5% more likely to rebell (they don't feel like a part of the empire.)

This would also be great if you could establish a colony as an outpost instead (can only build 1 or 2 facilities) but the planet cannot rebel and can only hold so many colonists)

[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: ZeroAdunn ]

[chewy027]

zero what do you mean by section four. If your refering to the summary there are lots of 4th points. I guess i'm just asking for a little clarity And The spaceport idea is good too

[Skulky]

I totally agree with this idea, probably one of the best out there, there should be the ability to research special units that can be built on a planet/transported there that are 'police,' then you can repress riots. The police could be ordered to ensure order or repress people, would effect happiness but could hold an alien race in line until you can move them off to step two of my idea, a 'prision colony/base' where they could be held for a year or so until they are properly adjusted.
Also, the empire that would be spawned by the revolt would be at a disadvantage (usually, especially if created by an enourmous intel project (100,000-800,000 points)) and then would be easily overrrun. HOwever, int he pattern of the COld War CIA you could offer assistance tothe rebels in the form of ships/money and recognize them as the ligit gov't. this would naturally piss of the gov't they revolted from. If you chose not to recognize them they would be pissed at you and the gov't they revolted from would like you, this could be an interesting situation (Arab/Israeli today where many countries wouldnt' recognize Israel for a long time).

Great thread, keep it up.

[chewy027]

skulky a police unit would be pretty cool. It would be a good way to keep pops in line. Lets say the trigger for a civil war is one of the ones discussed below in the summary, this would be another way to prevent the trigger. Have some police units stationed on each planet. They could also provide a base defense against invasions. I think this would be a little more realistic then the present militia. Anyway good thought I'll have to add it the summary along with the spaceport idea by zeroadunn