Ukraine 2021(?)

[Wdll]

Great footage from inside a (possible) Alligator strafing (kind of) targets and then doing an emergency landing.
Not sure if there were real targets or of they actually hit anything, but interesting footage no matter what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLa3fZD1vXs

[DRG]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60767454

Ukraine war: Putin has redrawn the world - but not the way he wanted

.......he has failed to understand his own armed forces. It is clear now that he expected this "special military operation" to be over in a few days.

[Wdll]

Even if Putin is removed as a threat, in some way, I am afraid he is going to be a small problem compared to PRC.
The PRC is one of the most undemocratic countries, which still has under occupation Tibet, constantly threatens Taiwan who they don't even see as a separate country (remind you of something?) and they keep improving their economy and their military with (in large parts) Western money.
The same way the West has looked the other way because Russia was providing with raw materials, the same way and even worse the West looks the other way with PRC by having what at times feels like 110% of world industry located there.
HUGE mistake which no one seems to care about.

Imagine if the "good old" USSR instead of forcing it to call it quits, the West was providing her money to keep developing and getting rich.

[Wdll]

Any idea what the second vehicle is? I can't see clearly if it is some type of MBT or BMP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nzaRHecoGU

EDIT: OK it clearly is some type of MBT. Not sure what type, but it looks to me like it gets penned from the side and catches fire.

[DRG]

I found the clearest section of that and straighten it



Thinking a T72. Note that it does not have the bag mounted ERA on the sides

That's a very short clip but at no time does the Tank do anything so we don't know what happened before. Note the gunner has plenty of time to pick his target low on the hull ( and that guy to the left of the aim point must have just loved having those 30mm rounds whistle passed his head)

The bottom line is what goes into the game is based on what we learn or just sometimes guess based on "official" information and Russia has a LOT of T-72's and ***betting*** they are not all upgraded to the same standard even though outwardly they look similar. If that was an early 72 that was given ERA blocks on the turret it * may * only have the original side armour and those "plates" on the side may just be re-enforced rubber as a RPG deflector. They certainly don't appear to have ERA

By the stats used by the game the "best" Pen for the SABOT rounds used by the 30mm autocannon on a BTR-4 has a Pen of 15 and that could theoretically pen the side hull steel armour of a T-72

BTW.. the recorded sound of that autocannon firing is now in the game for Ukrainian vehicles using that weapon

[DRG]

I am investigating a number of avenues none of which is making my life any easier ATM

IF some of the info I have is correct (IF) many of the "new" upgrades to the T-72 ( and T-80 ) are on old hulls given new ERA, and a host of other items

I have not found any info that the hull sides were given extra armour and IF THAT is the case then these upgraded T-72's while having a number of better bells and whistles still have a side hull in the 8-9 range IF these are old T-72's with the new gadgets added which would mean that yes indeed they would be vulnerable to a 30mm autocannon from the side which is a "really big deal" in RL and the game, especially in an urban setting.

That said there is still much we don't know because the info is not readily available and I am still digging for info'

We did discover a little "oopsie" in the code that has now been corrected in both games. When Country training is turned off and players can dial in a single value the display on the purchase screen only shows the changed EXP rating while MOR does not change but it actually does and that can be seen using the Roster screen in the game..... MOR does change along with EXP ( a couple of lines of code were // commented out that should not have been and it now shows the correct values entered for both)



As well, we are looking into a way to make that a two-part question that will allow EXP and MOR to be adjusted individually but the code for that is less than straightforward so no promises on that but we still remain "hopeful"

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by DRG

I found the clearest section of that and straighten it



Thinking a T72. Note that it does not have the bag mounted ERA on the sides

That's a very short clip but at no time does the Tank do anything so we don't know what happened before. Note the gunner has plenty of time to pick his target low on the hull ( and that guy to the left of the aim point must have just loved having those 30mm rounds whistle passed his head)

The bottom line is what goes into the game is based on what we learn or just sometimes guess based on "official" information and Russia has a LOT of T-72's and ***betting*** they are not all upgraded to the same standard even though outwardly they look similar. If that was an early 72 that was given ERA blocks on the turret it * may * only have the original side armour and those "plates" on the side may just be re-enforced rubber as a RPG deflector. They certainly don't appear to have ERA

By the stats used by the game the "best" Pen for the SABOT rounds used by the 30mm autocannon on a BTR-4 has a Pen of 15 and that could theoretically pen the side hull steel armour of a T-72

BTW.. the recorded sound of that autocannon firing is now in the game for Ukrainian vehicles using that weapon

Just one thing I noticed. After the first couple of shots, the "T-72" starts moving "back". Something which I am sure you noticed too. The weird thing is why the turret doesn't seem to be turning at all when the Ukrainians firing at it again. My guess is either only the driver was alive, or perhaps the crew abandoned to tank before it was destroyed. If not for the actual deaths of people, very interesting footage, among other footage.

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by DRG

I am investigating a number of avenues none of which is making my life any easier ATM

IF some of the info I have is correct (IF) many of the "new" upgrades to the T-72 ( and T-80 ) are on old hulls given new ERA, and a host of other items

I have not found any info that the hull sides were given extra armour and IF THAT is the case then these upgraded T-72's while having a number of better bells and whistles still have a side hull in the 8-9 range IF these are old T-72's with the new gadgets added which would mean that yes indeed they would be vulnerable to a 30mm autocannon from the side which is a "really big deal" in RL and the game, especially in an urban setting.

That said there is still much we don't know because the info is not readily available and I am still digging for info'

We did discover a little "oopsie" in the code that has now been corrected in both games. When Country training is turned off and players can dial in a single value the display on the purchase screen only shows the changed EXP rating while MOR does not change but it actually does and that can be seen using the Roster screen in the game..... MOR does change along with EXP ( a couple of lines of code were // commented out that should not have been and it now shows the correct values entered for both)



As well, we are looking into a way to make that a two-part question that will allow EXP and MOR to be adjusted individually but the code for that is less than straightforward so no promises on that but we still remain "hopeful"

While clearly not the case with this encounter, I have seen in the past days videos and photos of "fake" era packages on Russian tanks. Either empty or not having actual explosives in them. I am not mentioning it for game purposes, after all I have no idea how that could be implemented in the game without more info. I just find it so weird and so...who knows how many yachts were bought instead of upgrading these units.

[Mobhack]

Apparently, the HE found in Russian ERA blocks is quite the valuable trading commodity, often being sold off by units to "fishermen" for cash or booze. Thus the HE part is often not routinely fitted, also for peacetime safety reasons of course. Those things are after all live munitions like hand grenades so should not be filled until the baloon goes up.

As the invading units were "on excercises" before they got the orders to go into Ukraine, I wonder how many units went in with unfilled ERA blocks due to having no HE charges to fill them on hand (whether traded or routinely kept unloaded by safety policies), or insufficient time to load them while also bombing up the tanks with live war loads when they pivoted to actual war status?

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Wdll

While clearly not the case with this encounter, I have seen in the past days videos and photos of "fake" era packages on Russian tanks. Either empty or not having actual explosives in them. I am not mentioning it for game purposes, after all I have no idea how that could be implemented in the game without more info. I just find it so weird and so...who knows how many yachts were bought instead of upgrading these units.

It would not surprise me to learn the era packages were first pilfered before videos made.